Drop in fuel mileage

i went to a seminar last spring and got certified as a tech for Monitor
heaters and Toyotomi water heaters , just for something to do. They claim
efficiency in the lower 95-97% range, and recommend a 2 hour service once a
year. One guy I know cut his heating bill by 2/3 switching to a kerosene
Monitor from a propane unit. It's still petro, but pretty efficient.

 

I can't actually believe I'm reading this thread. The blinkers you
mostly seem to be wearing, the selfishness implicit, and the ignorance
displayed of the true problem makes me worry.

 

Well...I always find it interesting when trying to solve a problem, when
someone suddenly brings out their version of the TRUTH...which somehow is
supposed to preempt any particular facts which don't support their
PARTICULAR truth.

Would you care to explain what part of the United States generating a large
majority of their electrical power from fossil fuels you happen to disagree
with? Is my approximation of 75% incorrect? Are you a peak oiler who
believes the Big Die Off is just around the corner? Are you a proponent of
Global Warming so that we have tropical weather in parts of Alaska just to
tee off the Floridians? Which particular BRAND of truth are we interested in
today?

 

"Drop" is a bad word.

Thumper

 

The true problem is simply the likelihood of running out of fossil fuels
as demand continues to escalate and new discoveries of reserves tail
off.

And the USA's seeming reluctance to do much to cut back its profligate
use of energy.

That's all.

 

I see! A peak oiler man.....well....would you care to discourse heavily on
the subject for the edification of the lurkers, or do you prefer to just
state your case such as in the preceeding paragraph and then wander off?

In case you wish to discourse heavily, I would start off with the obvious.
We will never run out of oil because recovery factors in oil wells are never
100% unless we mine the rock. I will also point out that this is ruse,
simply to determine how far down the peak oiler path you have wandered, and
your answer will help define that point for me.

I notice you did NOT say "running out of CHEAP fossil fuels", but apparently
just included everything under the "running out" scenario.

I would inquire, how do market forces and supply and demand figure into your
world view whereby we are somewhere near the liklihood of "running out of"
fossil fuels? This question is not a ruse, but an answer to it will also
help define the scope and size of how well you have thought about the
general problem.

 

No, you don't. I am aware of all the arguments for and against, which is
why I said "the likelihood".

Unlike you, I chose my words carefully.

It may or may not happen. But as long it's a distinct possibility, the
profligate use of energy by the US would seem to be slightly
irresponsible to some.

I will admit that I should have stuck to "oil" rather than just "fossil
fuels" because the island where I live is, to all intents and purpoes,
built on coal, and there's enough there for a long, long time.

As for supply and demand - well, demand is increasing, has always been
increasing since they first struck oil (barring one or two
recession-time hiccups), and if you can see that it will not continue to
increase, pray share your insight and tell us why.

 

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that I was talking about NZ re. the
'use fossil fuels to generate power'.

Most of our power is generated from dams, but every now and then, at
peak times, more power is needed than can be generated by the
dams....thats when we need to switch on the fossil fuel (bunker oil,
coal, natural gas)stations.

The need for power will never drop. If it's not going to be fossil
fuels, nuclear is the next option....but that doesn't fit into our
'clean, green' image either.....

Maybe the last person to leave NZ won't have to turn out the light, it
will already have gone out.

 

Chicken Little

--
PC Paul
89 PC800
77 R100RS

Trip pics at: http://photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart

"To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to
society" - Theodore Roosevelt

 

Oil reserves are double previous estimates, says Saudi
http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/article315546.ece

Anyway the oil is not going to dry up overnight. No sign of it so far,
and there will be plenty of warning.

Hey, I switched to smaller-than-stock jets in my carbs.

 

Er... more women? Better looking women? A supply of Viagra? <GD&R>

 

Yup, like I said, it may or may not happen.

Your reaction, above, saddens me.

 

Please....general platitudes from someone who has paid any attention at all,
and all you can come up with is, "its a likelihood" we'll run out?

Sure...and completely avoided the question....which was that we CAN'T run
out of oil because you CAN'T get it all out of the ground.....so choose
words carefully all you wish, you are wrong. Perhaps if you were specific
and choose your words carefully, rather than relying on interesting sounding
phrases with no practical meaning to those who are paying attention?

Absolutely! Except of course, China is 4 times more profligate in their use
of energy per unit of GDP than we are.....so why aren't you more interested
in fixing THEIR problems than ours, them being more wasteful?

There sure is. There is also alot of oil for a long, long, time, but that is
dependant apon the rate at which it is withdrawn from the ground. Perhaps
you would perfer a infrastructure arguement than actually getting tangled up
in a "likelyhood of running out" arguement?

I imagine it will continue to increase, right up until the next worldwide
recession, or substitution of something else as a transport fuel, at least
here in the States. And those "hiccups" you mention are some wonderful
examples of both demand destruction, and the effects of conservation, which
all led the US to use the same amount of energy to create alot more economic
output per unit of energy used. Supply and demand has a way of doing that to
you.

 

Bullshit. They said the same thing in 88-89 when OPEC got into a "reserves"
pissing contest. Matt Simmons is right, no one knows what the Kingsdoms
reserves are, because they aren't using the same definition as the rest of
us, and won't show anyone the calculations they use to calculate their
number. So it could all run out tomorrow, or it could keep going for a
century. Unless of course you want to trust people like the Family Saud?

Well...I'm not so sure about that.....

 

The more geothermal, hydroelectric and wave action power generated, the
better. I wish the US would do a better job at getting their heads out of
their asses and switching over to nukes and whatever else is handy and clean
instead of launching into this silly argument on how we're going to
geological sequester CO2 from coal fired plants so the Arctic sea ice won't
disappear in the next 50 years....right....

 

All these options cost money, and Joe Average doesn't want to pay more
than he has to.

I wish the US would do a better job at getting their heads out of

The centre of the earth is molten rock. Design a rig that can drill down
to the magma, then let water in (easier if your'e drilling in the
ocean), and harness the steam as it rises....it sounds simple (but then
a lot of people say I am).

This whole 'global warming' thing is getting out of hand. If the planet
wasn't 'warming' it would be 'cooling' towards another ice age!

If the ice caps melt, big deal. It's not like the water will disappear
into space (unlike this urge to populate other planets. With humans
being 70% water, I don't like the idea of letting it leave the
planet.).....it will still be in our atmosphere and oceans. There is the
same amount of water on the planet now as there always has been. If the
sea levels rise, and storms become more intense causing more flooding,
the earthlings will cope. People living on flood plains could simply
build their houses on barges that float until the water recedes.

My elevated inland property could well become a beachfront asset!

 

No, it couldn't.

 

I was referring to a major water flood breakthrough at Ghawar....not the
world in general. And trust me, if that particular event happens, you'll
know it, and you'll know it fast, and it will be a bummer for everyone. If
it happens of course. Which it will. But when?

 

Well average joe when he's looking at $20 a decatherm this winter is only
going to know heating his house with natural gas is EXPENSIVE.....wonder how
less expensive alternatives will look then?

Yeah, its outta hand, but the Arctic pack ice is melting, and thats a
bummer, unless it kicks off a full bore ice age instead of just a warmer
planet. Us fat people like it cooler....Eskimo's rule!

I don't think sea level rise could get me without pretty much wiping out
civilization. And I can always hike up a hill behind me and get another
quick 5000 feet of elevation if I need it in a pinch.

 

They'll learn.

I think they need to do something about their pollution problems first,
mind.