Doing It the Champ Way

Finally got round to fitting some new tyres to the Guzzi, but this posed
the perennial question about scrubbing in. I've always gingerly tip toed
about for a hundred miles or so to "scrub off the release agent".

The Champ doctrine states that this is bollocks and it's only necessary
to get the tyres hot. But Champ appears to be the only proponent (on
UKRM) of this method.

New BT45's [1], 10 miles later (actually to get the engine hot), full on
side stand scraping action [2]. No problem, nice matt to the edges
non-slidey tyres. Case proven.


[1] Top recommendation, cheers Lozzo. Lets see how long they last, I can
destroy a Macadam rear in 4500 miles.
[2] The first thing to touch down. Unusual as the Guzzi has loads of
ground clearance and my style isn't the full on lean.

 

WHich type of side stand? A lot of people fitted cali stands and frame
rails to T3's and spadas/Lemans'

 

Small gearbox pivot type.

 

My second Spada had a Cali sidestand. The original one was shite. You
had to change the lower frame rail as well, to get the Cali stand to
fit, IIRC.

 

I've got that on the back of the BMW - a very good non-sports-bike
tyre, IMO.

 

darsy had a fit and wibbled.....

I had them on my 350LC, they grip bloody well for a middleweight H/V
rated sports/touring tyre.

--
Lozzo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CBCBCB750RSRSRS
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, two#49, MIB#22, TCP#7, BONY#9,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, KoBV#3.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
www.mjkleathers.com

 

sweller wrote

I really don't know but perhaps this has something to do with Champs
actually knowing what he is talking about for a change on this one.

And I have to say that, although I only have personal knowledge of
scrubbing in perhaps a dozen new sets of tyres in the last 35 years, the
logic of it appeals to me so he is not alone

 

I'd agree with that, on my third set. One set (on the base model K) did
about 5k and broke up a bit, I think it's because the gearing is lower
than on the RT.

On the RT the set I've got on have done about 6.5k now, hoping for close
to 10k before I replace them...

 

I am also a proponent. Want to know what's actually happening?

I give them a couple of heat cycles but it probably isn't necessary.

 

here's an article from the Bridgestone F1 site - Kiesa talks about heat
cycles towards the end.
http://www.bridgestone-eu.com/articles.asp?ID=2323

 

Certainly something I'd agree with. I head for a roundabout a few
miles up the road from the tyre dealer, do a few laps and they're
scrubbed. In a race I've hammered a set of brand new Rennsports after
one sighting lap and 3/4 hour on the tyre warmers.

<snip>

--
Daz
GSXR1000K2 - Fun
Fazer600 - Purpose
CBR600 - Racer
MRO#26 | FOT#115 | FOF#48 | two#41
http://www.highsideuk.com
ukrm at btopenworld dot com

 

I put a set on the K11 as Lozzo rated them so and it was an improvement on
Pirelli Match. That said my extreme provocation of the ABS at all possible
opportunities saw the front wear in equal time with the back. WTF, they were
cheap.
Now have a set on the RS, again excellent.

 

Hog had a fit and wibbled.....

What is this, is everyone trying to make out I'm some kind of fucking
tyre fitment expert? I'll not suggest any more fitments from now, cos
pride always comes before a fall.

--
Lozzo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CBCBCB750RSRSRS
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, two#49, MIB#22, TCP#7, BONY#9,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, KoBV#3.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
www.mjkleathers.com

 

<Unrolls prayer mat>

Don't worry you just said you had used them loads and they were good.
Now Bear and 010's, that's a different matter (ouch)

 

Hog had a fit and wibbled.....

Avon Azaro 3 ST45/46, the new 020.

Had them on the ZZR for 2,000 miles now, and so far lost 1mm in tread
depth from 9mm. They grip like 010s all the way to the edges and look
set to last better than 020s. Wet weather grip is far better than an 020
and on a par with 010s IMO. They are very stable mid-corner, allow quick
and effortless turn-in and allow changes of direction without
complaining when flicking through S-bends.

My only criticism is they can squirm a little under extremely heavy
braking and as you pull away slowly from a standstill.

Overall, I love them, and I paid about 40 quid a pair fitted less than
020s. That's one good reason to buy them IMO.

--
Lozzo
ZZR1100D, GPZ500S, CBCBCB750RSRSRS
BOTAFOT#57/70a, BOTAFOF#57, two#49, MIB#22, TCP#7, BONY#9,
ANORAK#9, DIAABTCOD#14, UKRMT5BB, IBW#013, MIRTTH#15a/16,
BotToS#8, GP#2, SBS#10, SH#3, DFV#14, KoBV#3.
Url for ukrm newbies : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
www.mjkleathers.com

 

I don't use the front brake much, K has plenty of engine braking which I
tend to use with a touch of rear when filtering. Front only when I need
to slow quickly (which isn't that often) or at least that's what I
*think*; I don't have a clue what I'm doing when I'm riding, the bike
just looks after itself.

Anyhow... even like this the front is almost fucked when the rear is
well fucked. K seems to be hard on front tyres.

 

Try the magic roundabout at Swindon.
It goes both ways.

Roger.

 

likewise the one at the bottom of the valley in High Wycombe.

 

This is doing my nut in. Darsy, could you please put this on the web site?

When you get a new tyre, it isn't finished. It's not 100% rubber, I don't
know how finished it is, 50%, 80%, 99.999% it probably depends on the
exact tyre compound, even the particular tyre itself, but it's not 100%.
There's still some amount of the original material left unreacted,
unvulcanised.

Tyres aren't made out of the rubber you know and love, they're made out of
stuff which becomes rubber when vulcanised, it used to be latex but there
are better synthetic replacements now. These replacements aren't rubber
either, they are waxy, plasticy materials which can be moulded easily. This
waxy, plasticy material is treated with a vulcanising agent (which used to
be sulphur, might still be) and then heated to encourage the chemical
reaction which turns the original material into rubber.

The molecules of the waxy material are long chains which can slip over each
other easily, good as a lubricant, crap as a tyre. The sulphur gets in
between the molecules and when heat is applied it bonds them together
turning the lubricant into a springy rubber.

The reason you have to "scrub" the tyres is that it's time consuming and
expensive to continue applying the heat to the tyre till the vulcanising
reaction has gone to completion, I think they do it for 10-20 minutes,
enough to make it relatively safe and useful. The heat you add when
scrubbing continues the vulcanising reaction driving it to where it's
supposed to be. You are *not* removing mould release agents, if you were,
you could just wash the tyres.

The chemical reaction continues slowly throughout the life of the tyre but
the initial heat from the first use of the tyre does most of the work.

 

Some do, others don't.
--
| Wik -UKRMHRC#10- 2000 ZX12R-A1 -DC#1 -'FOT#0 'FOF #39 - BOD#12 BOB#12
|# You don't believe me | "Experience is the worst teacher.
|That the scenery | It always gives the test first
|Could be a cold-blooded killer. | and the instruction afterward."
***** human response from wik at blueyonder dot co dot uk *****