Does this worry anyone?

They want the same four day week work pattern they have "negotiated" with
other train companies. First are claiming operationally, it's not feasible.

Sweller did explain to me what a four day working week really means - but
Aslef could *REALLY* do themselves a favour and explain it to the mainstream
press, because it's always portrayed as exactly what it sounds like - a four
day week - and that's just not understandable to idiots like me who think
"four days? But I work five!!"

 

They operate different services with different requirements to other
operators?

I don't know, but I know they must do something that is sightly different
to others - this is perhaps best demonstrated by the simple fact they run
one of the most reliable, vaguely punctual, not stupidly overcrowded
services around. Not sure that One or, and in particular, Virgin can claim
the same.

If they want public support, or even public understanding, the public need
to appreciate what they're asking for - hence they do need the PR bit, if
only to not lose even further the empathy of the people they're going to
completely piss off (the passengers).

A four day week to your average Joe sounds a bloody good deal - even though
the realiity (as explained by Sweller) is that it's a bit shit really.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, dwb

*Ding*.

It's an absolute responsibility of the union leaders to explain their
POV to the public through the media. They really are spectacularly bad
at it a lot of the time (although cutting through media spin probably
doesn't make it any easier). The fact that so many of them look and
sound like they've just wiped their nose on their sleeve doesn't help
either.

Of course, scheduling one-day strikes that just happen to coincide with
major sporting fixtures only serves to feed cynical bastards like me,
but I'm sure there's an excellent reason this happened during (IIRC) the
last World Cup (or was it the European Championships?).

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

Firstly it has been very patiently explained as to why negotiations have
broken down:
http://www.aslef.org.uk/C2B/PressOffice/display.asp?ID=273&Type=2&Search=t
rue

Most issues are not sexy or quickly explained to someone outside the
industry and are rarely reported accurately if at all.

Why would the popular media wish to impartially report an industrial
story? If there is a wider understanding of the case or effects of a
decision or decisions that in itself may not suit the wider purposes of
the media. It'll probably be a bit boring too.

Also, why do I need to keep public opinion on board? I represent my
members, no fucker else. My first concern is to inform and communicate
with the membership and protect them and their union by keeping to the
very restrictive laws.

It would be nice to be loved but I don't really give a **** what the
punters may think so long as I retain the support of those who I
represent.

It's that simple.

The decision to 'drop the handle' isn't.

 

No, they don't. Their principle manning requirements are no different to
any other SE TOC.

A four day week does require additional drivers but ASLEF have been
negotiating to achieve this at no on-cost. That is a self financing
deal, as has been done with other companies.

Although I don't know the full details it appears First have got greedy.
They and NEG are the most recalcitrant employers to deal with.

This may give you some idea of the strength of feeling and how "Unions
are bloody awful at explaining the case" - it seems not to their members:

Number of Ballot Papers Issued 272
Number of Ballot Papers Returned 272
Number of Papers found to be Invalid 0
Thus Total Number of Valid Papers Counted 272
Number Voting……YES 245 (90.1% of valid vote)
Number Voting…… NO 27 (9.9% of valid vote)

Total 272 (100% of valid vote)

 

If we took the line that any advance for workers is at the expense of the
employer, therefore the industry and paying passengers as a whole, we'd
still be working 89 hour weeks.

However, unleashing industrial mayhem is not to be done lightly or
without understanding of the economic and social consequences both for
the punter and member.

We normally walk quietly but carry a big stick, we're just at the waving
the big stick stage.

It's not naive, we've bitter experience of trying to keep all and sundry
'on board' and it's been ultimately at the expense of the primary goal:
representing our members wishes.

Bear loving us or Bear hating us makes what difference to the resolution?
What we need to protect the industry is a speedy but considered
resolution: not one that panders to the middle classes.

 

Meant to add:

Agreed, but the communications our 'customers' receive is different and
explicit in both tactics, problems and the larger situation. This is not
necessarily a good thing to go public with.

 

Well yes. You can never labour a point too much in my opinion....

The attitude we (ASLEF) have is industrial action is to be avoided but
not at any cost.

It would be nice to have public opinion and yes we could communicate the
issues more effectively but we've had our fingers burnt here before and
experience also shows us that public opinion has little or no effect on
the outcome.

The opinion of those taking the action has immeasurable effects on the
outcome.

 

It doesn't show
^^
<shudder>

 

I like the way you managed to associate Bear and pandas (Ok, panders,
but I'll allow you some artistic licence) in the same paragraph, whilst
still talking about trains.

Perhaps it's time I got some sleep.

 

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Carnivora
Family: Ailuropodidae, or Ursidae, or Procyonidae
^^^^^^^
Subfamily: Ailurinae
Genus: Ailuropoda
Species: Ailuropoda melanoleuca

You sure you're not thinking of Koalas?
--
| ___ Salad Dodger
|/ \
_/_____\_ GL1500SE-V/CBR1100XX-X/CBX1000Z
|_\_____/_| ..78875.../...19731.../..31242.
(>|_|_|<) TPPFATUICG#7 DIAABTCOD#9 YTC#4
|__|_|__| BOTAFOT #70 BOTAFOF #09 two#11
\ |^| / IbW#0 & KotIbW# BotTOS#6 GP#4
\|^|/ ANORAK#17 IbB#4 PM#5 WG*
'^' RBR 2005: Abandoned - Bronze Award.

 

Fucking off now, Mr Petulant Panda, sah!

Elephants, riiiiight.

 

On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 23:48:13 +0100, "sweller"

[tocs and strikes].

Got greedy?! They always have been.

Colour me not surprised. They both have the most to lose given how many
franchises they control between them - 11 if I've counted them properly.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, sweller

Yet public perception *is* important when anti (or indeed pro) union
legislation is on the agenda. And the unions (I maintain) do themselves
very few favours in the eyes of the public most of the time. It's clear
that you don't perceive that as a problem, I have to bow to your
experience.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha GTS1000

 

I agree but worrying about whether you're going to look good in the Mail
when you need to get an issue resolved quickly and ensure the disparate
members are kept informed and on board is a low priority. Especially, no
matter what you say it will be played as the Mail sees fit...

However a lot of the legislation we want repealed doesn't relate to
industrial action. Predominantly it's about organisational, discipline
and operational matters. Much of it spiteful and designed simply to make
operating difficult.

None of it is sexy or that interesting, TBH, and do you really think that
the public view counts for more than the lobbyists in Westminster?

 

Train service isn't bad though.

I do understand what you're saying - I just happen to have my passenger hat
on.

I've got a passenger panel meeting on Monday with First - it would have been
good to wind them up a bit, though the latest 'communique' over it states
that "due to tender issues" none of the senior management are attending - so
it'll be stare at the minions whilst eating all the sandwiches time.

I don't think it's because they anticipate the customer panel to be a hot
bed of industrial dispute but you never know.

For reference, it appears the inability to carry bicycles worries passengers
more than the state of the drivers

 

What's the general view in uk.rail.freaks? I'm not sure my will to live
karma can cope with them ATM.

 

I haven't even looked TBH - they tend to annoy me so I can't imagine what
it's like for you

The only reason I'm interested in the First stuff is that I use their
services everyday, and I'm also on the First "Customer Panel" - which is
about as glamourous as it sounds really.

Still, I did at least manage to get the post box reinstated at Didcot after
questioning the real terrorist threat to the station that a closed post box
negated