does a 2001 indian enfield count as a classic?

My personal view is:

If you ignore the Enfield bullet diesel and the Indian made Bullet cruiser
there are basically 3 types of Bullet, the Classic, the Sixty-5 and the
Electra X.

The Classic with a few mods to technology brought in by the Eicher Group
over the last few years is almost unchanged from the early 50's versions.
Looks the same, sounds the same, same 350 (and later 500) engine(s), points
and coil ignition etc, a bit better finish but things still fall off.
Definitely a classic, I can not see it being anything else irrespective of
dictionary definitions.

The Sixty-5 was Enfield's first attempt at bringing the bike 'up to date'.
It was a stopgap measure whilst they were developing their new lean burn
engine. Much better build quality, looked early/mid 60's, same engines,
same sound etc - a classic? A little problematical in my mind but I would
be minded to cut it a bit of slack, use some journalistic license and just
allow it in under the limbo bar.

The Electra X to my mind is an altogether different kettle of fish.
Significant improvement to bring the bike up to the turn of the century
whilst at the same time retaining the essentials of the original classic -
the (pseudo) look and sound of a British thumper. Classic? Don't think so
but terrific bike and IMO the best of the bunch to date.

Andy

 

Htf is that a classic? It's a poorly made piece of shit made on ancient
tooling.

The original Enfield, made by Enfield, is a classic of some sort - a
classic piece of shit, perhaps, but still a classic. No way is a copy
made in India in modern times a 'classic'.

 

Andy Coles came up with the following;:

Wrong.

 

The indian made Bullet was NOT a copy, it was and still very largely is made
on the tools and jigs sent out to India by Enfield back in the 50's as a
result of Enfield in the UK not being able to keep up with the demand for
the Bullet for the Indian Milliatry.

As regards it being a bag of shit. Well you are entitled to your opinion as
are we all. The thousands upon thousandes of people who own Bullets and
also the members of the Bullet clubs around the World may also not hold your
views.

 

First up what I wrote was a personal view and so, to me, it can not be
wrong.

Presumable 'wrong' is you personal view.

 

No, it's a question of semantics. It's simply not possible for a brand
new bike to be a classic, which is what you maintain. Ergo you are
wrong.

And while I know there are lots of people who like them, they _are_
bags of shite. Fact, whether you agree or not.


--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Blimey, some great discussions round here. Bloke with a new Enfield
comes along and says it's a classic then a guy with new Jap bike says
its not. Thank god the internet was invented. We'd be so much worse off
without it

 

Try engaging your brain. This is a forum for discussion of 'classic'
bikes, with an acknowledged understanding[1] of what the term means.
Matey somes along saying a new bike is classic, several regulars point
out that that's not what is normally meant by the term, and you and a
couple of others get all shirty about it.

What's your problem, exactly? If you awant to persist with this I
suggest you start an alternative newsgroup
uk.rec.motorcycles.classic_in_a_different_way_than_the_accepted_meaning.

[1] And indeed a suggested 'definition', as referred to in the FAQ,
posted here every week http://www.unixconsult.co.uk/bike/ukrmcfaq.html

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Andy Coles came up with the following;:

Nope.

There is no way a brand new bike is a classic, whatever your personal
viewpoint. Some brand new bikes might achieve classic status, but they have
to be pretty special or have some quality that makes them stand out from the
crowd.

Any Enfield produced within the last 20 odd years is not, and probably never
will be, a classic by almost any recognised definition. Indeed the original
Enfields the bullets are modelled on were, and are, not classics. They
might be in a classic stylee, but that's it.

 

came up with the following;:

I don't have a new jap bike at all, I don't even have an old jap bike now.

Ho yuss.

 

I don't see much discussion. Just folk repeating things like 'it's
shit. Fact'

 

Open eyes. Read earlier replies to thread.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

If you take the 'Clasic' Enfield Bullet being made right now in India, as I
said earlier with only a few minor mods to technology, it is the same bike
made on the same tools as theose back in the mid 50's.

I know some of you guys think it's a shite bike, and you are entitled to
that view, but if it was a classic then (and some of you are begrudgingly
acknowledging that) it is no less a classic now simply because it was only
built yesterday. It is the bike we are really talking about as being a
classic I would suggest and not the fact that it is not yet 20 or 30 years
old. This is the same bike.

I feel it is amazing that a 40's design has stood the test of time and is
still being manufactured today. Does a bike not have to be made today for
it to qualify as being a classic?

 

MTT Y2K?


Regards,

Simonm.

 

The message <42fcc1f6$0$12904$>

I think that if you take this too far you will end up with a comparison
with furniture antiques.
Then the purists will want you to beat the bikes with chains to make
them suitably 'distressed' and I do not think you would like that.
;-)) John.

 

I never said, implied, or intimated in the slightest way it was a copy.
I'm fully aware of its origins.

Poor bastards. There's no hope for them, is there?

 

Arsebiscuits - I did. Slip of the finger - what I really meant was a
reproduction in the first post.

 

Yes, but in very peculiar circumstances. The Indian gov't imposed
swinging taxes on imported bikes for decades in an effort to improve
home production. Whole assembly lines for defunct models of bikes and
cars were brought in by Indian manufacturers to get round this. Witness
the Hindustan Ambassador - the old Morris Oxford.

Outside of the peculiar Indian home market the Enfield would have been
buried and forgotten in a field that is forever Scrapland.

 

I think it was on Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:03:40 +0100 that Grimly

I owned an original 1956 500 Bullet in the (very) late 60s and in its
day it wasn't a bag of shite. Though by the time I got my hands on it,
it probably was... In those days Brit singles were made for a
completely different market to the market today. They were made for
commuting at minimum cost and reasonable comfort (for a bike). Mine
did 80mph + and over 70mpg and wasn't treated with the respect it
deserved (me being a 16 year old hooligan at the time).

The Bullet was (believe it or not) one of the better made and more
reliable bikes of its era and the one I had was about 15 years old
with somewhere around 30K on the clock. It had a bent valve when I
bought it for £2 (idiot previous owner got the valve timing wrong)
and when I had the head off I checked the bore and big end - no play
or discernable wear. I had it for a couple of years with no problems
at all, apart from a broken chain (my fault - shoddy teenage
maintenance) and the bloke I sold it to kept it for several more
years, using it for regular trips to Snowdonia from the Wirral. I went
out to find a 500 Bullet, prefering it both in looks and handling (for
60s values of handling) to the competition, such as AJS, Matchless and
the like.

Bloke across the road from me has just bought a brand new 350 Bullet.
It'll be interesting to see how well it survives the Shropshire roads
(think ploughed fields after a hard frost) as it doesn't look as 'hewn
from rock' as my old Reddich-built one did. He's my sort of age (50+),
has been involved in motorcross for years with his sons and knows his
way around bikes. He bought it as something cheap to potter around on
and has no intention of getting it wet if possible (knackered knee
joints like me!). For that use, it's ideal, as he doesn't want
sonething that'll scare the shite out of him every time he opens the
throttle (no chance of that...).

The Indian Bullet has its place. It's certainly no classic in the
accepted urmc sense, but to us oldies it's a reminder of what we used
to ride and there's no harm in that.

As far as the original Bullet is concerned I'd still argue that it's
every bit of a classic (with a small c) as any of the other late 50s,
early 60s commuter bikes, probably better than most in its day (the
one I had was more or less oil tight, especially compared with my
brother's 500 Triumph and 650 BSA) and spent far less time in bits in
my dad's garage than his bikes did. I suppose it is one of those "you
had to be there things".

Getting back on track to 'modern' classics, I was bought up in
Chester, home to Bill Smith Motorcycles. Bill was (I think) the first
official importer of Honda bikes into the country (my first bike was a
1963 Honda C50 Stepthru) and he also imported Bridgestone (yup, the
tyre manufacturer) bikes in 68-ish. there was an 80cc two-stroke
single (faster than a contemporary Bonnie to 40 according to a mate
who had both), a neat 175 two-stroke twin trial-style (raised/braced
bars and twin high level pipes down one side) and a fearsome 500 two
stroke triple (pre-dating the Kawas, I believe, by several years).
Bloke I knew had the first 500 in the country (MCN borrowed it for a
road test) and it was (in those days) just about the quickest trouser
filler on the market, especially when it used to drop the fuel lead to
the middle carb and spray fuel/oil mix onto the rear tyre...). Are
there any Bridgestones left on the road I wonder? I saw a a very rusty
175 on Ebay a while ago (most of the ones mates bought were in that
condition before they were due their first MoT).

Aah, happy days.

Rob
--

Rob
Broseley, Shropshire
1991 Yamaha XV 535 Virago
1997 Rover 623GSi

 

Rob says...

My best mate owned a 350GTR for about 15 years. It lived in his mum's
loft for 10 of those. I think he sold it unrestored but complete for
some stupidly high price. He's the bloke I bought my Ducati 160 Monza
Junior and YDS3 from, Gus had a penchant for the weird and wonderful
bikes of that era.