Do they think we're morons?

Notepad. Note down your ideas, try to get them in some kind of
constructive order, put up a web site, register it with google.

If Danny Wallace can get a following of thousands just by putting
an ad saying "Join Me" in a paper, I'm sure you can get at least
a few disciples with a well thought out hypothesis.

 

ogden says...

Destiny's Child

 

Actually it's utterly appropriate. You see it was written in response
to people who had decided that the preaching that the apostles were
doing was nonsense.

Phil.

 

Indeed. Like working for a living. Like providing for ones own (and
others as they have need).

Neither of which require participation in the political process.

Indeed they could. And often did. As do some of the people in the
denomination that I belong to.

Indeed. Because that was the mechanism then.

Ones specifically appointed by God - yes. And their descendants. Yes.
Us? No.

Read the prayer Jesus gives before his arrest (Gospel of John - can't
remember the chapter off the top of my head).

Except your political party. And your Chief Whip..

Where the context matters I include it. Either as a direct quote or as
an background explanation.

Indeed. Which is why (where it needs it) I quote sufficient to give the
context.

Phil

 

Samuel. When the people were tired of being ruled by judges and wanted
a king (mostly as a war-leader).

They ended up with Saul as king.

No. The Kings of Israel (certainly the first two) were directly chosen
by God and anointed by the senior prophet of the time.

The second of which was David - who is a pivotal figure in Gods plan.
His son Solomon was a 'type' of Christ (like a foreshadow).

Phil

 

The second

Indeed

Phil

 

To a Creator who is omnipotent nothing is too hard.

Indeed. Especially as they discuss with Jesus his impending crucifixion
and resurrection.

No - let us rather suggest that God allowed Jesus (and the disciples)
to interact with raised, glorified people who live in the same state as
God - ie no longer bound by time and space.

Phil

 

Given that democracy didn't exist then (even the Greek city-states had
long since abandoned it) it isn't surprising..

No. What we do proceeds from what we believe. Or should do.

Phil

 

The mortal population. Until the end of the millenial period when
reality as we know it changes utterly.

Phil

 

Which you won't find. Any more than you will find "you must not exceed
30mph in a 30 zone".

Which is why we have general principles laid down that we can then
apply to specifics.

Each to their own

Phil

 

Quite possibly. And Mesopotamian.

Phil

 

Why? And your word "surely" is merely a shortcut for "if I" - ie it's a
subjective thing.

As in "not buying their products"? Or as in "waving placards"?

The former - yes. The latter - no.

I try to. By being honest with all, by doing my job to the best of my
ability and "wherever it lies in your power, live at peace with all".

Phil

 

Then I'm afraid we are off to a non-starter.

Y'see - I belong to the latter category (in fact I'm of the
'no-headcoverings needed' brigade) - which I can justify on Biblical
grounds.

Trying to discuss Biblical stuff without reference to the bible is
fairly futile.

Phil

 

Phil Launchbury wrote:

There is a line of thought which says that the opposite to this is the
case, or can be: we fit our morality and beliefs to match the things
we do.

--
John (jsp)

SV 650
Black it is
And Naked

 

Hmm, you snipped the second half of that sentence, which rather allowed
you to sidestep part of the point I was making.


--
John (jsp)

SV 650
Black it is
And Naked

 

The point, though, being that you claimed that this Hebrews text was an
example of God telling his people that they should not take part in
human government. The fact is that it doesn't: you are merely chosong
to read that into it.

It might not *require* participation, but neither does it *exclude* it.

Oh, so the mechanism then was okay, but the mechanism now isn't?

Them, yes, in the mechanism of their day. Us, yes, in the mechanism of
our day.

Okay, so now we do have "they are not of thie world", which just takes
us back to my main response to your quote which was that even if they
weren't "of the workld" that does not imply no involvement with the
normal activities of the day, including voting.

Funny, that. I involve myself in politics and yet I don't seem to find
myself serving any party. And what my wife does with the whip has
nothing to do with this topic!

No, you don't. There have been a few occasions, which I have pointed
out, where you have lifted a quote and used it to say something. Read
within it's context, it does not apply in the situation you attempt to
use it in.

No, you don't.

You obviously don't feel that the context is needed in some cases: it
would, after all, weaken your argument.



--
John (jsp)

SV 650
Black it is
And Naked

 

No, it means that in the spirit of the NT, you should be doing your best
to alleviate the sufferings of your fellow man, and bring peace to the
world. I.e. take an active role, not a passive one. So why are you
gallivanting around on a bike instead of taking a stand.

In the words of the prophet - **** all then

The early church was not a group of passive abstainers, it contained
active individuals with a purpose. Anything less is just lip service and
sham.

It's been interesting watching "Shariah" on ch4. It's so obvious that
the moslem community there is bogged down in dogma and interpretation.

I.e. it, like xtianity has become a dead religion bogged down by
semantics lacking any true path forwards.

The Gnostics, who were probably the only people who could have moved
xtianity forwards were seen off a long time ago by the self serving
"catholic" faith who have done their best to stifle by any means
necessary to remove the competition

 

All theistic belief is inherently wrong.

 

You're going to hell, you are

.... just like me

 

Therefore it is ok to get involved in politicking.

Peeps: We want a king.
The Almighty: I don't want that to happen.
Peeps: We want a king.
The Almighty: If you insist, but it'll all end in tears.

If that isn't (a) politics and (b) going against the plan, then I don't
know what is.