Do they think we're morons?

I recommend being taught to read it in a narrow and specific manner
then going 'sod this' and using your own intelligence.

Phil, what's the position on head coverings for men and women in and
out of church again?

 

"All that's required for evil to triumph is for good people to
stand by and do nothing."

 

Not really. Every so often, when someone says something that strikes
me as *really* preposterous, I can't help but trying to understand how
they justify it. I soon get bored with it, tho.

 

I think that's the third time that quote has been used in the last week.

How does it feel to have posted the same thing as me and Des?

<fx: Manic Laughter>

 

Absolutely fine. Des has been uncharacteristically lucid of late.

 

Actually, no, I didn't. Tim did. Then you replied to Tim. Then I
replied to your reply to Tim's messages. The attributes are up there ^

--
John

SV650
Black it is
and naked

 

Okay, but the context here has nothing to do with involvement as such.
In contrast to your position is the statement that Jesus' follwers are
"sent into the World". Perhaps that could include joining elections?

Out of interest, then, does it include not working for non christian
employers? What about ones with dodgy practices? Or buying from
buisinesses which take part in exploitation?


--
John

SV650
Black it is
and naked

 

Excellent. They'd sit you down for a chat and a nice cup of tea (I
can't actually remember when I last had a decent cup of tea) then blow
the world to smithereens.

 

Indeed, therefore the interpretation you have adopted is as likely to be
as sound, or un-sound, as any other interpretation.

I encourage you to read the section that quote comes from and you should
see there that it advises you to be against "evil-doers" and support the
good. I suggest that this answers your point in that you are exhorted to
obey the civil authorities unless it involves doing bad.

 

But the point is that your perception could be in error.

 

I am sure Einstein has something to say about God and dice.

 

But the current PM has power to wield, he does right now almost like a
dictator. He was voted for, if nowhere else, in his constituency. The
vote for the seat he represents was conducted in a democratic fashion.
Therefor Mr. Blair does indeed have political power.

 

This is always a problem.

If you accept, for the point of discussion, that the deity has passed on
some eternal verity to some bloke. Then the recipient, aka prophet, now
has to record what he's told in terms that people would understand and
find meaningful. Add a few centuries, a change in language or two and a
few wars and it's no wonder that it's possible to find versions and
interpretations.

 

Really? I wouldn't know, not having met one. But I know a number of
Christians who believe in democracy.

But you cannot be sure that you are doing so. The trouble is that,
excepting the second coming, you only find out after you've croaked.

 

But we haven't established that there is a precept that Christians
should not take part in political life. Had Christians failed to do
exactly this in the past we would not have the liberties we enjoy today.

 

Apart that the portion you quoted is from a discussion on the patriarchs
living their lives through faith, I think you are being rather
selective. This is not from a discussion of social organisation or
political life.

Actually nicely clipped again, the fighting refers to stopping Jesus'
arrest by the Jewish temple authorities. The reference to "servants" is
hypothetical because they would be servants from the other kingdom. His
companions/disciples are not spoken of as servants.

 

I didn't need to. The question mark was rhetorical

The point is, though, that you are not conforming to the Biblical
precedent you think you are.

--
John

SV650
Black it is
and naked

 

I have not claimed expert status in any post.
I do know a thing or two, though.

Okay, first we need context. This passage comes from a section talking
about the faith of OT charachters. It is about their looking towards a
better, and different future kingdom of god other than the world they
lived in.

Specifically it talks about themeschewing the pleasures of this world in
favour of the next. They were aliens and strangers because they
recognised the transient nature of this world.

It does not mean that they were not involved, just that they danced to a
differnet tune. Abraham, for example was involved in the world of his
day, breeding his animals and becoming quite rich.

However, it does go on to talk about people who 'through faith'
conquered kingdoms, administered justice etc, which would be actions
very concerned with the type of 'government' active in their day.

Wasn't Jesus just pointing out that his Kingdom was not to do battle
with the earthly one? On earth, they were to live according to the
rules and laws of thier rulers. His followers were mistaken in thinking
he was come to free them in this life and establish his own real
physical government 'here and now'.

Besides, you are mis-quoting. He says that his "kingdom is not of this
worl". He does not say that his followers are not of this world. You
should take more care over your quoting.

Serve, yes, work with,no; no contradiction.

You are not to serve money, say, but you are allowed to work for it, are
you not?

The whole point of the sermon on the mount is about how you live, how
you treat others and what you value, above all.

Again, from the whole sermon, the section about two masters (v24) is
part of a section on fixation with material possesions. It is about
being fixated on god, not on this world's desires.

There's still nothing in that sermon which backs your argument.

30 years worth of biblical studies, however, do not seem to have enabled
you to even quote accurately, let alone apply properly reason to the
passages without adding a huge tilt of prior conclusions.

I never accused you of simply gaining your views from Google. I'm just
amazed that you allow yourself some considerable mis-quotes and draw
some conclusions from texts whose context clearly shows they have
nothing to do with the situation you are trying to apply them to.

--
John

SV650
Black it is
and naked

 

Lady Nina wrote:

The conclusion might be right, but missing out the 'narrow' bit would be
a blessing.

--
John

SV650
Black it is
and naked

 

I find all the debates twixt AndrewR and Phil fascinating. I also admire
Phil's ability to keep calm.

<snip>
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