Crikey comment

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 07 Apr 2009 07:36:29 +1000

Not necessarily.

If the object of the exercise is to stop people associating with
others for the purpose of nastiness, then you either work out which of
their associates are nasty and which are just people they met a few
years ago and go fishing with, or you decide that you *can't* know
that without a lot (months) of close (and therefore difficult to do
without tipping them off) surveillance.

So instead you accept you are going to make mistakes and issue interim
orders on people who aren't part of the problem. WHich is why there's
an appeal process.

So it may be done for perfectly sensible reasons, if you accept the
whole idea of guilt by association as reasonable. If you accept that
the crime is the meeting together of people who are suspected of
having previously (or possibly in the future) conspiring to commit
illegal acts.

As far as I can tell the crime this act is intended to punish is
people meeting together because they *may* take steps towards
committing a crime.

They are not required to have taken those steps, it is enough that
they are sufficiently closely associated with an overseas group who
have taken such steps.

While I would hope a judge wouldn't allow a group to be declared under
this act *merely* because they are associated with an overseas group
that has done bad things, the act appears to allow it. That the
locals have done nothing overt at all to say they too will do those
things is no defence as I understand it.



Zebee

 

The way I read the legislation was that if anyone was caught associating
with known criminal organizations, they were almost immediately imprisoned
for up to 5 years, with no recourse, meaning that the legal system didn't
have to go through the process of a lengthy court hearing and it was an
automatic gaol sentence.

 

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:21:49 GMT

I don't think so. I think they have to get a control order placed on
them first.

Where's the bit you see in the legislation that says they don't need
the control order served?

Zebee

 

but possibly and when the opening is there is can and will happen , 5
years locked up with little recourse and a huge shaft inserted , it is
time to sort it out and make noise before the pollys think they got away
with it/// or suffer the consequences//

but in the mean time the innocents are branded and that brand wont
wash out anytime soon..

 

Division 1 Interim control orders

Clause 14 enables the Supreme Court, on the application of the Commissioner
of

Police, to make an interim control order in relation to one or more members
of a

declared organisation pending the hearing and final determination of a
confirmatory

control order in relation to the member or members concerned.

*** The order may be

made in the absence of, and without notice to, the member concerned ***

but only takes

effect when the member is notified of its making in accordance with proposed

sections 15

 

So you post the section which contradicts your earlier statement...
*boggle*

Nev..
'07 XB12X
'08 DL1000K8

 

With all the arrests lately, all of which seem to have been made under
existing legislation, I'm wondering why the legislation was needed and
what have the cops been doing up until now?

 

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:12:55 GMT

So they can't get ya till they tell ya.

And you can appeal.

Zebee

 

But the way I read it, they can make the order without telling you, then
arrange for a court date, and tell you later

 

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 07 Apr 2009 08:48:57 GMT

They have to serve the interim order on you.

It doesn't take effect until they do, meaning they can't do you for
anything you do until they serve the order. They have to tell you who
you can't associate with. THey have to tell you when the hearing is
and how you can appeal.

And if you then violate it, it's 2 years for first offence.

The way to abuse it would be to delay serving the order until the day
of the hearing so that the victim has no chance to get anything
together. The legislation deals with the maximum length of time
between service and hearing but not a minimum.


Zebee

 

Nothing to do with what police are doing.. it's all to do what what
politicians are seen to be doing.

Nev..
'07 XB12X
'08 DL1000K8