Country towns not well

Oh give me a break, you don't *have* to reinvent yourself every 5 years,
most people will do it once. Job categories don't currently disappear
that fast.

Putting words in my mouth mate, where do I say or even imply "who cares
about the losers". In fact I think there should be sufficient govt
support to ensure people can & do retrain.

Bollocks. Money is an illusion. As long as capital is available to build
what you need the absence of the skills is what's going to stuff you. In
the war example the govt can nationalise (or just take over for the
duration of the war )foreign owned manufacturing plants (for example) -
if you don't have them, and don't have the skills to build them, you're
stuffed.

No I don't, I think *you* need to reread what you wrote, and actually
put in writing the extra things you obviously must have had in your
head. Because you didn't post them here.

You may well think that but you gave (and still give) no reasons.

The money is being spent to keep jobs in Oz, that's protectionism which
in a perfect world you wouldn't have to do, however refer to all the
stuff you snipped and other thread responsse for reasons why you might
want to do that. It really makes little difference most times whether
the business is foreign owned or not.

Well you're reading in what doesn't exist and extrapolating from there
foundlessly.

Read my opening sentence above. Those towns aren't foundering because of
insufficient tariffs they're foundering because of the change in
agricultural methodologies extracting the volume of people out of the town.

Oh and by the by, "australian canneries have all but disappeared" is
complete bollocks. What's happened is you no longer have dozens
(hundreds) of little canneries, you have a much larger volume of canning
being done by a smaller number of very large canneries. Yet again that
moves the jobs out of little country towns and into big cities. Yet
another reason for the people drain out of the towns.

Well you can be disagreeable all you like but you need to present an
argument if you wish to achieve anything by it.

Countries like Brazil and Indonesia can rightly moan about WTO and IMF.
Neither have had big impacts in Oz that we've been arm twisted into,
everything we've signed up for has been done so because the govt. of the
time has traded something for something in negotiations. (Ie the US/Oz
free trade agreement - they traded accepting crap copyright law changes
in exchange for a lowering of barriers to us exporting food to the US)

<chuckle> So point out the bits that are not being questioned in any
science, thats what academics do, that's how we advance civilisation.
The trouble is people like you to try and lump all economists together
the way Shock-Jocks and Howard era politicians lump muslims together.
It's much wider a knowledge set with any number of areas where there are
disagreements and wheree people are working on figuring them out.

It's not a "fixed source of truth unchanged for millenia"

Well there's not much point discussing it then is there. OK, you don't
want to convince me or the people reading that's fine

JL

 

And you'd pay $70 for them if they were the same quality? I wouldn't.
But then, I've never paid $70 for a pair of jeans in my life. I used
to buy Rivers though.

Agreed on the tourism, not on the tarifs. Tarifs are, to me, a means
of everybody paying to subsidise local noncompetitive industries,
resulting in a pair of $23 jeans costing $70, then preventing the $23
jeans from entering the country.

We have tarifs on motorcycle chains, adding 50% to the price you pay.
We don't make motorcycle chains in Oz, only some industrial and food
industry chains, but hey, we've got to protect that industry eh?

Theo
Who doesn't buy motorcycle chains very often.

 

Well if it's just about getting best value for price, then Australia
wiill never get up off it's knees. Get used to fellating the big boys
from overseas.

If the majority of people don't shift from that way of thinking to one
that says, "well, I'll only ever buy the Australian product (if it
exists) no matter the price (and then give hell to the producer until
they lift their game)", then it will never happen.

And yeah, I know that if your product is dearest we'll find it harder
to sell it, but that can be overcome by lifting the quality, and that
won't happen if there's not enough support for that product in the
early phase.

Until the "consumer" stops being a consumer and becomes an
economic nationalist, our economy will be captive to the big boys
oversees forever.

I know this would produce a long period of hardship, but you don't
escape the clutches of the economic sharks out there on the global
scene without being willing to do the long hard slog to freedom.

E.g. I stopped buying Vegemite and switched to MightyMite. I had to
re-tune my taste buds, but it's ok now.

But we don't really give a **** about any of that. The consumer is a
selfish prick. all he cares about is getting 'the bes t'value for
money', who gives a **** about what the consequences of that are to
Australia's economic independence.

They have their Aussie Pride stickers on the back window of their
cars, but they have no idea about how their spenDing patterns keeps us
slaves to the global big boys. the yrall don't give a shit.

Banjo Paterson nailed it when he said "their eyes are dull, their
heads are flat, they have no brain at all". thesdays he'd lilely add
"and they're mad for fast cars and sports bikes."

But I digress... ;-)

There are many ways to structure a tariff regime. Everything starts
off being "uncompetitive", but I say it ought not to even be about
competition. It ought to be about Australia striving for economic
self-sufficiency. A smaller economy, but OUR economy.

If I were the dictator of Australia, using your example above, the $23
import would cop a tariff of $47 and the money collect would be used
improve the quality of the Australian product and to improve
productivety within the same product stream. any left over money
collected in these tariffs would be used in educating the public about
buying Asutralian.

Well that's a daft way to do tariffs, I agree.

Let's not forget that what I am proposing will never ever be allowed
to happen so this is just pub talk waiting to be shot down by the
expert pundits (the same arseholes who coudn't forsee the current
recession coming until it bit them on the bum.)

Remember? Before the crash, they all claimed to be experts and
accurate forecasters. When it crashed, these same overpaid and
overhyped morons were singing the chorus "no one knows, no one can
tell."

Onya bike...

Gerry

 

Yes using Australian taxpayer funds to train our workers to work for
foreign corporations. Band aid stuff, that is... I still argue that
the fundamental issue ought to be Australia striving for economic
self-sufficency.

That would require a pardigm shift in what we see as the econimc
imperatives. It would require a commitment to downsize our economy,
our needs, our wants, until we get down to a sustainable,
self-sufficient Australian economy. A pipe dream I know...
Mainstream economists will always laugh this off, but they've already
sold us out to the hightest bidder.

Bwahahaha... In one breath you say that money is an illusion, and
then in the next breath you say "as long as capital is available".

About taking over and nationalising foreign coprporate stuff, that
woud be a very provocative thing to do. A little guy kicking a big
guy in the shins is not a smart thing for a little guy to be doing.

Read on, McDuff...

To me the diference is self-evident. I'm getting to the point where I
say "If I have to explain it to you, you aren't capable of
understanding the explanation."

Yes, if the subject is limited to "jobs". If the subject is
"Australia's economic self-sufficiency and independince", then the
difference is HUGE.

You're absolutely right of course...

Our so-called "civilisation" <oxymoron alert> is collapsing, I think.
but I'm neither an academic, nor a scientst, nor an economist.

I'm just one guy with a bunch or opinions doomed to irrelevance by
those who "know better". What do you want from me? At the end of
the day you have a piece of paper which says you know better. Good
luck to you. I was just airing my opinons.

Oh...the old "People like you.." gambit... Ooer...

If you'd actually cognited about what I said, you'd have seen the bit
where I said "An ever growing number of people are starting
to question all sorts of stuff in the airy fairy fictional world of
"econonmics". Many of them are economists." Please tell me how
that equates to lumping all economists together, John.

Fuckwit!

I'm just sharing my opinions. That's all. I can't speak
authoritatively because I have no basis on which I can claim to be
right. They are just my opinions. Do with them what you will.

Onya bike...

Gerry

 

I never liked vegemite.

So what incentive is there for the Oz jeans manufacturer to get
competitive, or even of a higher quality? What prevents us from
fellating the local industry? What do we gain for our $47?

Another beer?

Theo

 

Well maybe MightyMite is more to your liking. It's "milder". And it's
West Australian.

We get to support our own cotton growers (Australian jobs)
We get to support our own textile mills. (Australian jobs)
We get to support our own clothing manufacturers. (Australian jobs)
We get to keep these industries going instead of killing them by
buying imports.
We get to keep the money in Australia.

Why not. Australian or imported?

Onya bike...

Gerry

 

Oops, I missed a bit...

The tariffs only equalise the price. The government then imposes
standards and regulation in return for this tariff protection.

Governement imposed standards and regulation in return for tariff
protection. Mobilising consumer activism. Subsidies coud be offered
to assist in the interim/development phase.

Tariff protection is not just a carrot, it's also a stick. It gives
the govenment the clout to sort out an industry. Individual business
who are seen to be not worthy of protection could be counselled, and
if they don't lift their game, the goverment could withold assistance,
and maybe even penalise them in some way. Where there's a will,
there's a way, I say...

Not sure how you mean that. Who is "us", and how might we fellate
this local industry?

Onya bike...

Gerry

 

Diogenes wrote:

Ah, well, yes.... do you mean like Auscot?

They are the mob I used to work for before I saw the silliness of working.

Despite the implication of their name, suspected by many to be an
abbreviation of Australian Cotton, they are 100% Yankee.

They are owned by one of the largest private companies in the US, apart
from a brief period, some years ago, when Kerry Packer owned them.

They have some very specialist accountants, who manage to prove that
they rarely actually make a profit, but the left overs from income minus
expenditure gets neatly channeled back to California, under the guise of
loan repayments, specialist consulting, <mumble> etc.

They manage to use lots of our water, they get all sorts of tax breaks,
and, to be fair, without them Warren would cease to exist, Trangie would
probably close too, and Narrabri and Moree would be seriously crippled.

Them, I know. How many other "Australian" cotton growers are real
dinky-die Ozzies.....<shrug> I'd be surprised if there were many.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Totally aside from the fact that forecasting market movements is only
one facet of economics, you are once again grouping everyone into a
single stance which isn't accurate. There were a number of people who
accurately predicted the bubble bursting 18months ago including myself
(it was a no brainer). A few good analysts even accurately forecast
the record lows for the stockmarkets (I have to confess to
underestimating that one though - I started cautiously buying back in
at 4500 thinking it'd bottomed when the biggest bear who'd been
calling 3500 turned out to be right.

On the other hand quite honestly the ability to predict the stock
market movements doesn't make someone a better economist than the next
- the science is far more broken up into specialities than that.

FWIW the current cycle is entirely explicable, and a lot of people
tried to tell Dubya and Clinton what a dumb thing they were doing.
Politicians however only listen when it suits them.

JL
(all my super went from shares into cash in July /Aug 07 btw - my
money went where my mouth is)

 

Who are destroying the environment and should be banned, the
Australian ecosystem is ill suited to raising cotton and rice

Why not let some other sucker grow the cotton and wreck their
backyard, turn it into cloth and pollute their backyard which we
import at a couple of bucks a roll, then turn it into highly priced
garments with huge profit margins that we export

Oh wait, we already do that.

JL

 

That's EXACTLY the sort of rort I'd be shutting down. It's Australian
owned and operated or it goes to the back of the queue, heavily
penalised.

Accountants pulling shonkies would have their shonkies assessed for
dollar value and they'd be working it off digging for water with an
entrenching tool somewhere back-o-Bourke at the rate of the minimum
wage untill they've repaid the dollar value. i.e. a shonky accountant
who rorted a few million would probaly be digging for life...

A couple of those kind of convictions and the rest of the scheisters
would soon fall into line. Ditto for rorting CEO's.

One year after I become Dictator of Australia, I PROMISE you the
rortists woud either be digging for water or they'd have bolted
overseas.

I have so many good ideas I can hardly wait to implement them.

Our very own JL would come under particular scrutiny, as would Theo.

Start packin' boys...

Viva la Revolucion !!!!

Well THAT would CERTAINLY change...

And while I'm at it...

Pine Gap - taken over by Australia, and charging the yanks a MOTZA if
they want the services therefrom.

Exmouth VLF comms base - taken over by Australia, and charging the
yanks a MOTZA if they want the services therefrom.

I'M EXCITED !!!!


Onya bike...

Gerry

 

IOsama bin Laden (hello Echelon), might say they were numbercrunchers
for Satan. In a general sense I can empathise (you like that word)
the fuckwit.

When I become Dictator of Australia, quite a few of them would be
helping you dig for water back-o-Bourke with entrenching tools for
very long periods of time...

When I become Dictaor of Australia...

When I become Dictator of Australia, you super won't be worth zip.
But you won't need it where you're going, boy...


Onya bike...

Gerry

 

Two words: The Kimberley...

And that's ethical?

When I become Dictator of Australia, you'll get a short stint as my
economic adviser, and if you could convince me that cotton growing
waas bad for the environment we'd be banning all cotton products.
They tell me hemp is good though...


Onya bike...

Gerry

 

Diogenes wrote:

I really don't want to spoil what is obviously a good day for you,
Gerry, but, when I was last in Canberra, I paid particular attention to
the lamp posts around Parliament House, and noticed that the buggers are
careful.

The lamp posts have a graceful curve, so it would be impossible to loop
a rope over them for hanging people. :-(

Otherwise, I'm with you on the revolution (I still that that bloke Zebee
would be a better dictator, but...) you keep a close eye on JL, and I'll
watch his assorted troupe of women.

Leave Theo alone and forget the idea of an Ivory Tower, that would make
pumping the water up that much harder.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

I'm still voting for Zebee.

For what? Being a working pensioner and gaining some pensioner
benefits?
I suspect next week the Gov't is gonna put $1400 in my bank acccount.
Wowee!

Theo

 

Let me breathe in some of that smoke, it's obviously making you feel
good.

Theo

 

We'll bring mobile cranes. Lots' of 'em...

I'd be happy to give cede the Dictatorshit ot Zebee. As you say, he's
a top bloke.

When I get something on Theo, he'll be manning a hand-pump...

Onya bike...

Gerry

 

Huh? I thought you were a number cruncher. Where did I get that idea
from?

Onya bike...

Gerry

 

On a serious note, the hemp they grow for cloth-making is vert low on
THC content. Not enough to get high on. I seem to recall that NSW
has recently legalised its cultivation.


Onya bike...

Gerry

 

Well that's not much good then, is it?

If it's legal in NSW then it _really_ isn't much fun at all. :-(

regards,
CrazyCam