Cornering...

My view on this is that, at any sort of speed, the mechanism that you
describe is not present, or is insignificant when compared to the
gyroscopic effect.

This is the tendency for a spinning mass to remain in the same axis
and, if pressure is applied to change that axis, for the body to move
in a plane at 90 deg to that in which the force is applied. Put
simply, if your front wheel's spinning then pushing the handlebar
forward results _directly_ in a tendency for the wheel to lean over to
that side.

So there's no initial opposite movement required here, although I
accept that at low speeds this will be a factor. The explanation
you've been given, which is what many instructors spout, works as an
example to persuade people that countersteering exists, but in
practice is not the predominant effcet.

 

Ride the Wing, shift weight left, bars turn right, bike goes left.

and vice versa.

Controllable enough to negotiate country lanes, or change lanes on
motorways, with the cruise on.
--
| ___ Salad Dodger
|/ \
_/_____\_ GL1500SEV/CBR1100XXX/KH500A8/TS250C
|_\_____/_| ..66073../..15556.../..3157./.19406
(>|_|_|<) TPPFATUICG#7 DIAABTCOD#9 YTC#4 PM#5
|__|_|__| BOTAFOT #70 BOTAFOF #09 two#11 WG*
\ |^| / IbW#0 & KotIbW# BotTOS#6 GP#4
\|^|/ ANORAK#17
'^' RBR-Visited:35 Pts: 705 Miles:2429

 

Do you mean that the lean angle is taken out of the riders hands, aside from
changing the throttle position, after tipping in?

 

Can you lot sort it out once and for all and then decribe it at Ladybird
3a/b level.

 

I get that. But what about all that "can't change the angle of lean once
into it, it being dictated by tyres" or whatever whatisface was going on
about?

 

You steer the wheels out from under the bike, and it falls to one side.
This works on racing bicycles with wheels that weigh less than one of
Blaney's farts, so there's the gyroscopic effect right out the window.
Geometry innit.

 

I feel like I'm being a TC here but I don't know why.

Isn't "the set of the bars once in a turn is dictated by the lean angle and
the geometry of the bike" the opposite of "If you change the direction the
front wheel is pointing while you're leant over, you'll change the amount of
lean and radius of turn".

IOW, how can you change the direction of the front wheel (to change the
amount of lean and radius of turn) if the set of the bars is already
dictated by the lean angle and geometry of the bike?

 

Yeah I get that. But that wasn't exactly my question.

 

Well duh. Of course they bloody do.

 

Sorry, am I keeping you from some other fascinating ukrm conversation
somewhere?

 

I think that was confusing me. Cheers.

 

the cont known as Porl says...

More like keeping him from worrying where Ross is.

 

Other bikes as well. Leaning the riders body while going
straight will lead to the bike leaning the opposite way.

The lean of the bike (while still going straight) will lead to
forces from the front wheel that turns it into the lean. The
contact patch of the front wheel is behind the head bearing
centerline so the upwards force from the ground and the
wheight of the bike coming down from the head bearings
will turn the wheel.

A bike that turns away from the lean by itself would be
somewhat unstable.

Us poor people without cruise control get to experiment mainly
on long down hills.

 

Oh piss off Simon - we've done this before and all you ever do is try
to baffle with science'.

What you don't ever do is explain what _does_ go on - it's clear from
the K. Code experiments mentioned earlier that the main component
involved in leaning a bike is _not_ weight transfer, and I've
demonstrated (and you failed to counter) how 'weighting the pegs' is a
complete nonsense.

The idea that a cranked-over bike at 130mph countersteers by the wheel
first moving away from the turn is patent nonsense - if that were the
case it would keep moving away if you kept pushing, which it doesn't.
So there are other forces involved. What do you think they are?

<snip half-baked mathematics>

 

Yeah, as I said, a slow turn can be induced by body weight shift,
causing the bike to lean over and the bars to follow as described.

 

Eh?

 

I'm afraid I think you are wrong too. John Robinson's book make's
very little reference to gyro effect.

Anyway, countersteering *initiates* change in cornering, it is not
present at a steady speed.

 

< fx shakes head, newbies>

As far as I can gather from the soap opera that is UKRM, Ross is
Rope's previously troublesome teenage son - do pay attention at the
back.

 

And, of course, the larger the body weight is...

 

I can't remember Anne's granddaughter's name let alone any of the less
female progeny associated with ukrm.