Clutch is slipping

Did the problem crop up immediately after the car oil was installed? I've
had around 1200 great miles with this before it started doing it just
recently.

 

Well, I guess they don't call em dirt bikes for no reason huh?? lol The
oil filter on my harley is side mounted.... but i would never even think of
laying that on its side.
Ever think of laying a car on its side? Now that would be a
trick...hehehe...I am thinking that once a bike is on its side (newer ones)
there is some kinda switch that will shut off gas flow or just kill the
ignition that will need to be reset..... I seem to remember hearing about
something like this before....[/QUOTE]

See "Easy Tilter" and "Bottoms Up Lift":
http://www.accessiblesystems.com/automotive.php

 

If it started slipping 1200 miles after switching to auto oil, the
oil would be near the top of my suspects list.

I'd swap to a mfr./dealer recommended oil before I threw any
new parts at the problem. Automotive oils work OK in bikes
with dry clutches, not always so well in a bike where the
clutch and gearbox share the engine oil. You especially
want to avoid oils labeled as a friction reducing oil.

 

The best thing for him to do is change it all. (springs, clutches, plates)
That way you have one tear down, and cover all bases.

 

On the custom gasket issue, I have had luck with this method in the past...

-Coat a mating surface with grease
-Stick on the gasket material
-Useing a ball bearing, find the holes and give it a tap with a hammer, it
cuts a perfectly sized/ located hole. I hadn't thought of the ball pean
hammer trick, should work just as well.
-Pull the gasket off and cut around the grease stain with a utility knife,
scissors or snips

P.

 

I've read that link before. This one I find to be more comprehensive and a
little more useful in the theory aspect:
http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

That article is why I bought some Delvac.

It looks like I'm going to be pulling apart the clutch in a couple of
weeks... Thanks for your help.

 

Yes, yes, yes... consider me educated on the energy conserving issue. And
oil in general.

I haven't changed the oil since I became the owner 1200 miles ago.

My impression was that once you put in energy conserving, the clutch goes
bad immediately. I'm guessing that's not the case.

 

Sometimes dont take off the old gasket, just use atv blue or any of the
ultra's (copper or blue). Put on lightly. This will do the trick.

 

I googled what you said, and was not able to find anything. I have no idea
what you're talking about. What is this product or technique you speak of?

 

Another question:
I have pored through all of the Honda Common service manual and the CBR
F2-specific manual, and there is no mention of the minimum thickness of the
friction plates or the steel plates.

I know, I know... I need an aftermarket manual, but does anyone know these
specs off the top of his head? Is there another source for these numbers?

 

silicone.

 

Do you have them out yet?
If not black or have blue marks on any of them, just sand with 220 wet &
dry paper (wet) lightly. they will be ok. But if in doubt, get news ones.

 

Ehh... Could you rephrase that? The first sentence was confusing. Did you
mean "If the plates are not black or if they have blue marks"? I'm guessing
you're speaking of the steels... the fiber plates won't blue from heat,
right?

 

I use the Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 in my two stroke
transmissions. I have been using it for two years now, and am
impressed with the clutch feel, and ease/smoothness of shifting.

Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
Gas Gas DE300
Team LAGNAF
www.smackovermotorsports.com

**********************************************

 

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****************************************

He's speaking of "sensor safe" high quality silicone designed for
automotive and industrial use that is produced and marketed by
Permatex. The highest quality (the most heat, fuel, and oil
resistant) of this line of products are labeled "Ultra Gray", "Ultra
Black", and "Ultra Copper".

My Gas Gas DE300 uses a plastic ignition cover. To insure a better
seal against the elements, I will put a very light coating of "Ultra
Black" on each side of the ignition cover gasket.

Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
Gas Gas DE300
Team LAGNAF
www.smackovermotorsports.com

 

Nonsense. There is nothing magic about "motorcycle oil", except for the
disappearing act it does on the greenbacks in your wallet...

http://www.xs11.com/stories/mcnoil94.htm

Just make sure the oil you use, whether marketed for automotive or
motorcycle use does not have friction modifiers. These can usually be
identified by the label saying something about being "energy saving"...

 

I've been using the 15W50 Wally World 5 quart Mobil 1 stuff.
(Dry clutch shafty).

Didn't find any 5 quart containers last trip so I'm probably
going to wind up switching again myself.

 

Yes and no. Motor oil *is* a friction modifier, thats why we use it.
What you do not want is the latest friction *reducers*. A modern
motorcycle with wet clutch wants a certain friction specification, not
more, not less. JASO MA wrongly subscribes to the "more is just as good
as just enough."

The aftermarket autoclutch retrofit manufacturers all recommend heavy
duty fleet oils, so called "Diesel" motor oils, as most of these are
formulated for "Allison C4" (not to be confused with Diesel C-4 or CI-4
which is something else but not incompatible) automatic transmission
service. Being formulated for automatic transmission wet clutch service
a narrow range of friction is specified between asbestos and steel wet
plates. Also has to work well with gears. All the very things
motorcycle-specific F.U.D.ites claim is evil with all oils lacking a
picture of a motorcycle on the bottle.

As for labeling automotive oils containing the wrongly called "friction
modifiers", there is no requirement that the oil be so labeled. Current
Mobil-1 15W50 is not so marked, but does result in slipping clutch more
often than it should. Several years ago it was still Good Stuff, but its
markings have not changed.

The API specs do not mandate additives, they only restrict certain
additive levels. The latest have lowered the maximum levels of some
additives which were near and dear to motorcycle F.U.D.ites' hearts. No
matter that almost no motorcycle-specific oil was using more than the
new standards permitted. API simply upped the standards requiring better
base oil be used with less help from additives. API did not lower the
actual performance requirements.

"Energy Conserving" does not mandate additives. All one has to do is
prove the oil passes the API service category, and then be about 1.0%
lower in friction than what the industry accepts for a non-EC oil.

 

If clutch problems start immediately then you have clutch problems, not
oil problems.

If it is an oil problem and you stop before overheating the clutch then
an oil change is all you need. As before, proper oil will not totally
fix the problem instantly. At least, "not always" but the earlier you
catch it the quicker the cure.

I know of Hondas that have had problems starting hot with Mobil-1 15W50
"red cap." A completely different kind of clutch is involved for the
e-start. Refined Delvac cured them instantly.

 

No matter what you oil you use it will "shear out of grade" fairly
quickly. So what? What was 15W50 is now 15W40. If you really want to
know what your oil is doing then find a motor oil analysis service and
have *your* oil checked. Available at every truck service center. OTR
trucks never change their oil by schedule, always by analysis.