Charter Plane down- breaking news

What actually made that DC10 crash so wicked was that another DC10 had
had exactly the same thing happen in the US. The floor collapsed, and
(IIRC) one row of seats, with passengers strapped in, went bye-bye, but
the control lines stayed intact and the plane landed safely.

This was what prompted the repair/modification notice, but it wasn't
given top priority. And then McDonnel Douglas tried to blame the THY
baggage handler for botching the door latch.....

 

tallbloke said...

Yep, my sister wishes now that he'd taken the shift, or that she'd given
birth a day later.

 

Ooooch, harsh.

 

Hog said...

He was a ****, plain and simple. Only decent thing he ever did was sell
me his immaculate yellow RD400D when he married my sister in 1982. He
only did that because he'd lost the honymoon money in some fucking
stupid deal that had gone wrong. His son - my nephew - is a thoroughly
decent 16 year old lad. I suppose not having that wanker around him for
most of his life helped there.

 

message

IIRC it was a 'development' disc that had somehow got into a production
engine. After this happened I went to a presentation entitled 'a grain
of sand' all about how we ensure that our titanium for disc applications
is super pure. It was a defect of that size that caused the failure. Not
that it was one of our engines that failed, but we were affected by the
'fallout'.

If it had happened to engines 1 or 3, they wouldn't have lost the
hydraulics.

They were going too fast, but needed power to keep her straight. IIRC,
the throttle man reduced the engine power at the last minute and the
plane touched a wing down.

One of the 11 crew members and 110 of the 285 passengers were killed.
IIRC the worst casualty rate was in the posh seats up front. That'll
teach 'em.

 

Oh, is he a UKRM'r then?

 

Hog said...

I couldn't GAF. I told him to his face what I thought of him many years
ago.

 

Andy Bonwick <> spouted the following in

A no-champers rule for the Directors would prolly have concentrated minds
more.

 

No. Do you?

I do understand a fair bit about industrial switchgear though.

The Cap'n asked for some indicator lights which would show him on the
bridge whether the inner bow doors were fully closed or not. The
accountants of the company which took over the ship refused him.

I also remember quite clearly the issues connected with the sticking
hydraulic ram on the inner bow doors of the HOFE.

We can't be experts at everything, but we are still allowed to hold
opinions based on the knowledge we have.

Do you have a point to make about my comment concerning the Cap'ns
request or were you just having a go?

 

I'd be surprised if they had the power.

 

How would that have worked?

 

spouted the following in

That'll stop the hydraulic ram sticking then.

Corporate manslaughter: individuals arraigned and held responsible,
charges made, court, sentencing, time inside, no champers for a while.

I'm no legal expert, so this may require some changes in our system
before it'll ever happen. Given the shocking safety record of our
privatized transport systems, it's about time it did IMO.

 

I know. Dim Bulbs the lot of 'em.

What I meant was the people controlling the maintainence schedule had
prolly had their budget capped by the financial advi8sors to the new
directors. You can be sure that there will be a reason why none of them
feel they should be held acoountable for the warning lights not being
fitted at the Cap'n's request.

 

Fair enough squire

I thought I had a recollection of the reason for the disaster being that
the ship sailed while the bow door was still open because the deckhand
who was wellying the hydraulic ram with a sledgehammer hadn't had his
full ration of weetabix... or something.

Good job I know when to check whether I'm about to hurl myself into
self dug hole then )

 

[snip about locking up bosses to make them responsible]

Please provide examples of this shocking safety record and also set
against the safety records of comparable publicly owner transport
systems - just for the sake of fair comparison.

 

It doesn't make any difference to the blood dripping passenger whether
the transport system is publicly or privately owned at the time of the
crash they've just crawled out of (hopefully).

You can prove anything with statistics.
I'd rather concentrate on the real saftey issues of poor training, poor
retention of skilled personnel, cutbacks in infrastructure investment
and maintainence, dodgy operating procedures, lack of documentation,
lack of accountability....

Rant over.

Examples.

Recent train crashes, especially the ones caused by derailment.
Comparitively, the state run train system in Switzerland has a very good
safety record

Buses hitting low bridges or falling off embankments on foreign
motorways. We've had tales of drivers told they'll lose their jobs if
they don't drive beyond their allotted hours. Fine. Lets have a couple
of prosecutions against the companies which operate a culture of fear
and disc fixing.

 

The bugger of it was, it was online for a good landing and at the last
second it seemed to slightly veer off - the only home video of it I've
seen shows it coming in, touching down then a building blocks the way
visually, followed by a large burst of yellow flame.

Damn shame, after all that they went through the cabin crew didn't
survive afair.

--

Dave

GS 850 x2 / SE 6a
SbS#6 DIAABTCOD#16 APOSTLE#6 FUB#3
FUB KotL OSOS#12? UKRMMA#19

 

They did. The pilot did, anyway.

 

5/10.

It seems to be a misapprehension universally acknowledged that, in any
organisation, decisions how to spend money are made by managers and
decisions how to save money are made by accountants. Being an
accountant myself, I allow myself a little winge at this once or twice
a year.

HTH

 

Well yes but it was you who seemed to be making the point that private
ownership and operation is worse than publicly owned transport. I don't
believe that to be the case.

which are issues that apply equally to publicly owned enterprises. I've
read enough to know that to be the case. One form of ownership is not a
panacea.

Whether you like it or not, people take decisions based on knowledge and
experience. They believe their decisions to be safe - circumstances
conspire to prove that all that has gone before was not enough and that
risks present themselves that lead to accidents. Read the interim report
on the recent Northern Line derailment at Camden Town. I had to write up
part of the lessons learnt on that incident - very interesting process
whereby you see skilled and far more experienced people than me realise
that what currently exists isn't quite good enough and that you have to
do much better for the future. I think it's called learning from your
mistakes.

so there have been no comparable crashes elsewhere in Europe. German ICE
trains haven't had wheels fracture causing them to crash into road
bridge, TGVs haven't crashed off the TGV Nord line due to subsidence
under the track because someone hadn't surveyed the land properly? There
are never derailments due to cracked rails in other countries? - funny
that I was reading of problems on the Paris RER and also the Kowloon
Canton Railway with cracked rails.

The safety record of Britain's railways is the equal of those in Europe.
Yes we have had some bad accidents but can we please stop repeating the
mass, ill informed hysteria of the british media about safety on
Britain's rail network.

Yes but not all the trains in Switzerland are publicly owned. There is
a lot of state support but that is a different thing. Private companies
have no desire to go round killing people.

Double deck buses sometimes hit low bridges. A bus company MD, who posts
on another group I read, said that the single most frequent cause is
lack of concentration by the driver. This is not related to tiredness or
excess hours but down to the driver having other problems in his life -
illness, family strife, problems with the kids. This is why his company
(and it is one of the biggest operators in London) have a policy of
welfare and support and not sacking drivers and not forcing them to work
beyond their hours.

I feel no less safe travelling in a privately owned and operated bus
than a publicly owned one. In fact in London East Thames Buses is owned
by TfL and its quality and performance levels are far worse than those
of its private competitors. This is despite it being established to
"provide a benchmark for private companies to meet".

Sorry but I really think you need to read some of the Traffic
Commissioner's documents where company licences are revoked and
individuals banned from operating public service vehicles.

I suspect you may be using the antics of cowboy operators (and they do
exist) to create an impression that all private companies are bad. If
this is what you are doing in order to support your "prosecute them til
the pips squeak" routine then I think you are wrong. Accidents arise
because people make mistakes and systems are found to be wanting despite
people wanting to do the right thing - if you can't accept that then I
suggest you don't get up in the morning.