Car vs. bike conrnering speeds

Over the years I've often heard, or been party to, discussions about
relative maximum cornering speeds ofbikes and cars. Back when I
started riding, there was no question about it, cars would always be
able to corner quicker than bikes.

Now I happened to be thinking about this as I rode in this morning,
and actually looked at my speedo. There's one bend, for example, that
I'd normally be happy going round at 70-80mph in the Peugeot (which is
a 2-litre GTI with 205/45 tyres, stiff suspension and hence immense
roadholding) but which would demand more concentration etc. to be much
quicker. This morning I was just tootling along, as you do, but I
noticed that I was going round it at 100. Bugger me, this 'ere gixxer
corners fast, dunnit?

Thing is, I'm sure either of the cars would get round at that speed,
but you'd feel like you were on a race track, whereas the gixxer just
cruised around without even feeling fast. I could prolly have added
another 20mph before it started to get, er, interesting, IYSWIM.

So, are bikes now better at cornering than cars? Or is it just that
I'd need to compare it with a Ferrari or somesuch to make a valid
comparison?

 

I also had thought this. But counter steering is you friend and lean
is mean.

I can certainly corner far quicker on a bike than I can in a car:

The cars I'm comparing with are:

BMW 328Coupe'
Formula F27
Caterham Seven (on a track)
Porsche 944 Turbo

All lot depends on the car but my theory is that the inertial force
acting on the rear of production cars will bring the back end around
whereas on a bike the forces are making the wheels dig in. Of course a
lot of it has to do with the driver as well.

I could be completely and utterly wrong but it's my guess. Whichever
way you look at it I can corner much quicker on the bike.

 

Molly wrote:

Out of interest, would you say the same was true in the wet? and I mean
wet, not slightly damp.

 

Given that Schumacher still laps rather faster than the WSB guys (at
least that's what I read last night), I suspect that you're right.
The GSX-R is really a superbike in the way of super cars innit?

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Which then leads to the questions of power>weight ratios, acceleration
down the straights etc.

Lap times of different vehicles don't really help answer the question.

Fastest time from start of corner to exit of corner is all that is
appropriate.

 

The last comparison I saw of this type was on one of Clarkson's
shows. Niall MacKenzie on an R1 vs. some Touring Car driver in
a Porsche Turbo. While the R1 always pulled away out of a corner
due to the better acceleration, the Porsche always made up going
into and around the bends due the superior grip the four fat
tyres gave it. The Porshe finally 'won' the race.

I suspect it really depends on the driver/rider and what bike
and car are being compared.

 

Catman said:

A hell of a lot faster - the track at Silverstone used for F1 is a lot
longer than the (national?) track used for bikes there.

 

Yes [1]. As a matter of fact I was going to say "also in the wet".

[1] Tyre profile permitting.

 

Yes, but you are a riding Goddess.

There's a thought - if you bought green leathers, you'd
be a Green Goddess, and could put out fires in your
spare time.

 

Interesting. There's no war I'd be quicker at cornering on two wheels in
the wet. I simply don't have the confidence at such a small contact
patch versus that of a cage.

 

In

One of the "benefits" of ABS is being able to "play" with the brakes to
find the point that the tyres break away under braking in the wet.

First time I tried I was suprised just how much harder you can be on the
brakes than you think before the ABS kicks in.


--
Steve Parry

http://www.gwynfryn.co.uk

K100RS SE
F650
(not forgetting the SK90PY)

 

Hmm, not sure about that. Surely the power to weight ratio would
still have an effect, unless you slung them in in neutral and coasted
around.

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

CT wrote:
[snip]

And, sadly, who is doing/commissioning the comparison. Bias is a wonderful
thing.

 

No but JP wouldn't be so embarrassed. Hell, he may even fancy me.

 

Jeez, this chat makes me chuckle. I am so far from doing anything like
that! Should I be in the insurance business instead of making jewellery?

 

All you need is the right bike. I believe it should be obvious which
one that is.

 

if you're talking race bikes and dry track, then I'm not surprised.
However, in the wet, you'll probably run into a lack of grip sooner than an
equivalently-specced car, I'd have thought.

on roads, it's a different story.

 

Ye-es, I guess this is a factor, but the corner I was referring to I'd
often take a similar line when cage-bound as I did this morning on the
bike, given that there was oncoming traffic restricting the other
lane.

Not sure why this should be the case. If there's more mechanical grip
you'd expect it to show at any speed.

Y'know, I reckon it's more to do with the feeling - in a cage you'll
always feel the cornering forces throwing you to one side, whereas on
a bike you're in line with them, so it just doesn't feel so quick. Of
course, some bikes are better than others - the trumpet used to get a
bit wallowy on fast corners due to inferior suspension - although it
could be pushed it would never be as quick as the gixxer as the tyre
load would not be so constant.

 

Why? Assuming nothing wierd about the tyres there should be
proprtionally the same difference in available grip for the car
compared with the bike.

This is true, but IME I can be 20mph quicker on the gixxer and still
feel less likely to lose it if grip started to go.

 

I think that sounds a reasonable comparison, provided the vehicles were
prepped to equivalent standards. Obviously, a race-prepped F1 bike is going
to be faster than a caterham 7 set up for the road and the occasional track
day, in the same way I'd expect a race-prepped porsche touring car to beat a
bog-standard R1 on road tyres.

but the comparison above sounds fair on the face of it. And about the
result I'd have expected. However, if you set up a mixed race with a dozen
cars and a dozen bikes, the bikes would win on better ability to overtake.
This applies even to my SOBoxer, on the road - most of the cars on the road
these days will go as fast and corner as fast, suitably driven, but when you
get to traffic, it's much easier for the bike to overtake. modern sports
bikes are even better at this, the ability to go from 30-90 faster than you
can say it, almost, allied to the small physical size, makes it possible to
overtake safely in places where even a fast car hasn't a hope.