Car cop's lethal death toll -- The Welsh Traffic Talban speaks..

Car cop's lethal death toll

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004192275,00.html
Wed 28th March 2004

SPEED-war cop Richard Brunstrom has seen road deaths on his patch
INCREASE by 11 per cent within 12 months.
The number of fatalities rose from 44 to 49 in 2003 - despite the
Gatso-loving Chief Constable's Arrive Alive campaign in North Wales.

The number of motorcyclists killed more than DOUBLED from seven to 18 in
the same period.

But the campaign's manager said deaths had fallen on its targeted routes
- and more cameras would be used on additional roads.

Deputy chief constable Clive Wolfendale said: "We see no alternative but
to continue this work."
---------------------------------------------------------------------

"We see no alternative.." What bullshit. There are loads of
alternatives. What is the use of accidents falling at speed camera sites
if the overall death toll keeps going up and up? The death of
motorcyclists has doubled!

Why is it that so many police officers cannot admit when they are wrong?
It's a simple enough thing to do. If something isn't working you try
something different asap until you find something that does yield
results.

Archie

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004192275,00.html

Deaths went up by 5, after including 11 motorcycle deaths, so non-bike
deaths went down from 37 to 31.

We all know that there is a huge problem with biker deaths, particularly in
picturesque areas such as North Wales where bikers go to play.

The speed culture among bikers has killed hundreds and will kill many
hundreds more. These tragedies prove nothing at all about cameras, and the
article is a calculated distortion of the statistics.

Keep it up Mr. B.

 

Bystander () gurgled happily, sounding
much like they were saying :

As many as, or more than car drivers that don't bother to look?

Apart from "they don't work"?

It was in the Sun, ffs. You expected a Pulitzer Prize winner?

 

Most biker deaths are caused by cars emerging from a side turning.

Got a camera for that?

 

Binary Era wrote

Too simplistic by half. In urban areas then yes you are probably right.
on roads full of weekend warriors I suspect it is a different matter
entirely.

I have got a DVC15 for the weekend. A man should always have something
for the weekend.

 

Stats?

What proportion of motorcycle fatalities occur in single-vehicle accidents?
Do you know?

 

About one third, according to the last figures I saw.


--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, COSOC#9, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

And what is the proportion caused by "cars emerging from a side turning"?

 

I'm afraid I don't know the exact figure off the top of my head. One of the
bike mags ran an article on accidents recently, but I don't have that issue
to hand.

It is the case that the vast proportion of multi-vehicle accidents involving
bikes happen at junctions or roundabouts, but you'd expect that to be the
case anyway.

I don't believe that I've ever seen stats that include an assessment of
blame anyway, so this is probably a fruitless line of enquiry and unlikely
to prove anything.

For example, a biker being knocked off by a car emerging from a side turning
can encompass different scenarios; it's one thing being knocked off if the
side turning is in the middle of a straight road with miles of visibility
and quite another if the side turning is 20 feet after a blind crest.


--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, COSOC#9, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

The figure I have in mind, quoted in the motorcycle press from
official figures, was 66 percent of motorcycle deaths involve a car
emerging from a side-turning.

I'm not sure how speed cameras would help cut that figure, as although
bikers don't have to speed, they *have* to pass side turnings.....

 

So what is the answer to that problem? Cameras obviously aren't working
in this particular case?

Is it true that in France, bikes are not allowed to exceed 100 BHP?

So you think there should be yet more cameras?

Thanks for your input.

Archie

 

Remember the Think Once, Think Twice, Think BIKE, campaign? With our
'Enry wielding an orange and hammer.

Highlighting junctions and reminding drivers to actually think before
myopically lurching into the path of an oncoming bike.

Well, it doesn't seem to have worked ...

 

That figure is a bit on the high side.


--
AndrewR, D.Bot (Celeritas)
Kawasaki ZX-6R J1
BOTAFOT#2,ITJWTFO#6,UKRMRM#1/13a,MCT#1,DFV#2,SKoGA#0 (and KotL)
BotToS#5,SBS#25,IbW#34, TEAR#3 (and KotL), DS#5, COSOC#9, KotTFSTR#
The speccy Geordie twat.

 

The Real Archibald wrote:bored us all completely to death with wittery
prose along the lines of:

Yes. Exact power limit is 106bhp. Don't be fooled into thinking that
power is proportional to number of accidents though.

--
Cab :^) - Ormiga Atomica
GSX 1400 - 'Tarts Handbag' (tm) Bike, dead 550/4 Rat
UKRMMA#10 (KoTL), IbW#015, Bob#4, POTM#3

P.S. Remove your_head from the cab. ICQ: 83023471

 

Yes - and their death rate is worse than ours. All those trees lining
the roads are bad news for bikers. The old power to death rate has been
done before and every study shows no correlation between them.

If the Welsh want to reduce biker deaths then they should ban
tractors/sheep/trees/hedges and improve the runnoff area on the bends,
install gravel traps on the worst bends and ban cars from Saturday am to
Sunday pm.

 

Thanks for that. I assume visiting bikers from outside France are
exempt.

Do you know if the higher death rate applies to visiting bikers as well?

Thanks

Archie

 

No, I understand that. My thinking was that if the use of cameras in
North Wales is not reducing biker deaths then it would be highly that
some bright spark would suggest severely limiting the power of m/c's.

This led me to think that bikes *were* power-limited in France, but as
you and another have pointed out, that hasn't helped.

Archie

 

You would have to ask the French that. France and Germany and I think a
couple of other European states have power limits.

This was done to death in the eighties when a European commisar called
Martin Bangemann tried to introduce n EU wide limit. After a lot of
heated discussion an investigatigation found no link between accident
rates and horsepower and the idea was dropped.

Joking aside, those lovely tree lined roads in France mean an accident
that you would expect to survive in UK often cause worse injuries or
death.(IMHO)

 

The Real Archibald wrote:bored us all completely to death with wittery
prose along the lines of:

And there are still more accidents per head in France compared to the
UK.

Mind you, since the introduction of speed cameras has reduced the
number of accidents over the last couple of months, so something could
be said there.

http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/care/statistics/most_recent/detailed
_breakdown/index_en.htm

--
Cab :^) - Ormiga Atomica
GSX 1400 - 'Tarts Handbag' (tm) Bike, dead 550/4 Rat
UKRMMA#10 (KoTL), IbW#015, Bob#4, POTM#3

P.S. Remove your_head from the cab. ICQ: 83023471

 

It's not a question of trying "something different", it's a question
of trying something else *in addition* to what you're already doing.
This is a concept you speedophiles seem to have great difficulty in
grasping.

Doesn't the fact that non-biker fatalities have gone down by over 16%
while biker fatalities have more than doubled tell you something? Even
including the kamikaze motorcyclists, the 2003 figure is still over
18% down on the 2000 (i.e. pre-Brunstom) figure.

Jim.