Can anyone explain this to me?

I've been accused of being hard-headed more than once but for the life
of me I can't understand the rider line up for next year in GP. Now that
MotoGp has adopted a forum to truly contest the best machines and with just
about all of the factories involved at one level or another. Why aren't the
absolute best riders involved? Is there something I'm missing, or what?? My
expertise is mostly with AMA racing but I'm sure there are riders in other
venues that are just as deserving of a GP ride ,if not more so. I mean when
riders like Mladin, Yates, E. Boss and even Duhamel are bypassed along with
many others in different series, one can't possibly say that the current
rostrum are the "best of the best"...
After racing and "spectating" for over forty-years, I just don't
understand. If it were me who had just built the epitome of a racing
machine I would want the very best rider I could work with and afford...
Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see that happening.. Can someone please
take the time and explain this to me.
(If, in fact there is an explanation) Thank you.


T3

 

Heh!
A1: It's a troll.
A2: They are.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong ( not following AMA very closely ).
But I think last year all the guys you name here got their asses kicked
by Nicky H.
Not that Nicky did a bad job last year, but as long as he doesn't win in
MotoGP, my guess it that the others should probably stay in the US where
they belong.

( have to admit that there are some guys in GP of whom I don't
understand what they're doing there either )

 

I think Julian may have been right, it may be a troll, but it's a
question asked a lot, with some justification.

I don't follow AMA much either, but to say 'asses kicked' is probably
a bit of an overstatement.

No, it was not a bad job. Riding a brand new bike on tracks he had
never seen before, I guess 5th was OK. I mean here is a list of people
he beat:

Bayliss - only by a few points, and it was Troy's 1 st year as well,
plus Troy was on a brand new bike - this just illustrates how well
Bayliss did.
Checa - To be fair Carlos was only the number one Yamaha factory
rider, and has only been in GPs for 10 years or so.
Ukawa - same bike (probably better), multiple 8 hour winner, only
been riding factory Honda kit for about 3 years, plus the time on
factory 250 tackle before that.
Barros - Alex has only been in GP for about 12 years. He just
probably needs a few more years to "get his eye in".
Melandri - Another first year rider on a factory bike. Had the
handicap of only seeing the tracks for the previous couple of years on
a factory 250.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture ;-).

This gets to the heart of the problem, if indeed it is a problem. Once
a factory has a winning rider, they do not care about the others.
Remember, GP is a business. Some people make the all to common mistake
of thinking the GP racing is about finding the fastest racer/bike in
the world.

WRONG !!

GP is about winning the championship on Sunday so that you can
leverage this into sales on Monday. Once that is done, GP is about
merchandising, and getting sponsers return on investment. Once this is
done, maybe the racing might count.

People from the US make the all to common mistake of thinking that
just because <insert name here> is mega fast, then <INH> should be
paid big bucks to go GP racing. For rare cases like Nicky, this may
happen - this is the guy who will win championships - why else did
Honda put up with Doohan for years? After that riders are "purchased"
for sponsorship value in their home states. This means that guys from
countries where racing is popular will get picked up, such as Spain,
Italy and Japan. These riders will bring sponsership on board, after
all, that is how the teams support themselves.

It really is that easy - and before I get flamed to a well done crisp,
I am not saying that this is some sort of conspiracy. It is very easy
for Bos, Mladin or any Yank with half decent results to get a ride.
Just get some faceless corporate ( it's not like the US is lacking
those) to chuck 10 mill on the table and quicker than you could say
"oh my god I got a factory ride" it would happen.

Note that the above assumes *some* talent, and results to happen.

Feel free to disagree, but after following GP for some 20 years I see
it get more and more like F1 every year.

YMMV

Cheers
RB

 

That's exactly what I was trying to say, IF Nicky will start winning,
that the others might have a chance too, but until then, I think they
might as well stay in the US.

 

It wasn't a troll, just a simple question that I thought others (including
you) might impart their knowledge on the subject. Looks like I was wrong
thinking you might actually share some of your "wisdom" to us "unwashed AMA
types", sorry, my mistake... I guess you can go back to your tower(the ivory
one) now...
T3

btw- I'm not getting into a pissing match with you, the point was, now tha
SBK/WSB/BSB looks like its going to be regulated to the "back burner", why
aren't the better riders in the various venues getting a shot at the big
time, that's all... If you consider that a troll, well, I guess that says
more about you than we needed to know, sorry...

 

Answer one. Well T3, this is Usenet. I reserve my right to be rude
occasionally. ;-)
Answer two. If this wasn't a troll, See A2 above. This year there were 8
ex world champions. Then there's another 7 or so who've placed second in
a world championship, have won world races or have won their national
championships.

So yes, there are riders in other championships who choose for whatever
reason not to compete at world level and yes some of them are probably
as good as the ones I'm referring to. And usually the reason they're not
racing at world level is money. Either they want more, or they need to
bring more. Or both.

For a longer answer try here.
http://tinyurl.com/vuee

 

One point I think that has been missed is that once the manufacturers pull
out (WSB,AMA SBK, BSB& others) the money is sure to follow. That leaves a
bunch of top level riders (not necessarily the winners) more or less having
to race at the club level. When I watch a MotoGp I see quite a few "back
markers", sure some of it's the machines but not all of it by any means...
It just seems to me that there's a whole boatload of talent out there that
is fixing to be relegated to the club level. If I were a betting man, I'd
wager there are 5 or 6 more just like Bayliss who'll come out of nowhere
that won't get a shot at the big-times...Why????That was the question you
took as a troll, oh and sorry for the ivory tower thing, it was uncalled
for..
It just seems to me the factories had better concentrate on
something besides MotoGP if they expect that series to flourish for more
than just a few years.

T3

 

get a grip t3, life is tough sometimes.

 

"Want more". It's a common refrain that people like Mladin can earn more
in the AMA than just about any other championship. It also applies to
the self belief and arrogance that says it's not worth competing unless
they can get a competitive, potentially championship winning ride. Why
leave a championship you can win for another where realistically you
can't make better than 10th because that's all the ride you can get.

"Bring more". I was actually thinking of a whole succession of Brits,
Germans, Aus and others who have the talent but had no hope of bringing
sponsorship. There's a few AMA people in that camp as well. Like it or
not, the second division teams in all 3 GP classes can't compete without
sponsorship money and that's as much up to the rider as to the team to
sort out. Even if the rider rides for free and isn't paid, the team may
still not have enough money to compete (to win). Jay Vincent and Jeremy
McWilliams are classic examples of this, as is Anthony West.

The money game is another of the set of games you have to win to be
world champ. And Rossi seems to be supremely good at that one too.

 

Haga?

Over this year and next

Ex World Champions or 2nd in world champs
Rossi
Biaggi
Capirossi
Jacque
(Kato)
Melandri
Roberts
Bayliss
Edwards
Hodgeson
Pitt
Haga
Nakano

Have won World Champ races
Gibernau
Xaus
McCoy
McWilliams
Abe
Aoki
Barros
Checa

Ex-National Premier Formula Champions
Hayden
Tamada
Ukawa
Byrne
De Gea?

Chris Burns (European Superstock)

Who did I leave out?

 

Rant on.

Jeez, Mark I'm getting really sick of this. The common refrain is not
Mladin himself it's people on this bloody newsgroup going on and on and
on (and on). How many times over the past few years have I listened to
people making bloody apologies for AMA riders whenever anyone asks why
they don't race at world level. It's the JIS. It's because they can earn
more back home. Its because it's not fair. It's because they can't
handle the food or travel. It's because it's different in America. It's
because they don't race 250GP. It's because the USA is the biggest sport
bike market in the world. It's because the factories spend more in the
USA. It's because it doesn't snow in Florida. It's because Rainey was
0.25s faster at Mickey Mouse Racetrack in 1982 than Abe in 1995. It's
because everyone else is half proven. It's because my glass is half full
when yours is perpetually empty.

Rant off.

*PLONK*

Back in the kill file you go.

 

I never seen Mladin and I don't know him.
But I remember some years ago on the 900cbr mailing list, a group of guys
who used to follow the AMA races and they had produced a special T-shirt
with someting like" anybody but mat". They had a lot of stories about the
bad behavior of Mladin with the other riders on the track and were really
disliking him. Probably for some good reasons.

 

I can think of two possible reasons: Troy has been linked to an
organization that is dedicated to trying their best, whereas if you
look at Suzuki's GP efforts since 2001 you really have to wonder if
Mat would actually prefer GP to AMA. At least he is on competitive
machinery in the AMA.

Second, let's not forget how Mat shined Suzuki's star in 2002 when
things weren't going his way and people on this NG were sure that
Suzuki Japan was going to give him a wildcard ride at PI at the end of
the season

http://tinyurl.com/wfdl

As for the E-B virus, I've known too many other athletes who've had it
to be overly impressed as it related to Mladin's riding.