California Motorcycle & Automobile Riding & Driving & Written Tests

I learned this taking the MSF class. It's a LOT easier to do a u turn (or
any turn) when you get to choose roughly where to go. It's those little
variations that you're allowed to make. The MSF class u turn box, for
example, is way easy because you get to choose your lines for the most
part.

Think how hard it would be if in a u-turn box they painted lines you had to
exactly follow.

The point I wanna make is it's a lot HARDER to make a u turn or circle or
figure 8 or whatever when you have a perfect radius set of lines
constraining your every move and in addition an eagle eyed instructor
grading every movement.

It means nothing to say you can do it. You must consistently do it given
EXACTLY the lines (2'3") to be constrained by without any wavering or
variation thereof whatsoever (as measured by the observer).

 

You DON'T understand! It's so DIFFICULT that no
HUMAN BEING could HOPE to ride it, even if they
were on a BICYCLE! Hell, I bet most PEOPLE
wouldn't be able to WALK it! It's all a giant
PLOT between the MSF, the DMV, and HALIBURTON!

Of course - even if you _were_ able to ride
it - CHP would shoot you dead on site[1] since
it's illegal to practice for the test.

-- Michael

[1] Har de har har.

 

Fortunately I don't live in CA so don't have to deal with this, not to
mention I took my DMV test 20 years ago in OR.

However, the one thing I find interesting that no one has pointed out
yet is that taking a test like this on a huge heavy bike with a lot of
intertia would be a lot -easier- than on a small lightweight bike.

I routinely have to make very low speed turns on city streets in our
dear city here down in the industrial areas that are full of chuckholes,
partially visible railroad tracks that the asphalt has crumbled away
from, etc. Imagine having to ride a street that has about a 3 inch width
of remaining pavement in between side by side potholes that are at least
8 inches deep, while a big semi driver is behind you, irritated that your
in his way, all the while doging the ass-ends of semis that are projecting
halfway out into the street. There's days that there's so many of them that
the street is literally blocked off and you have to turn and go down
another
block to go around them. And in these industrial areas they have been
docking areas for the last 100 years so not only are the streets
crisscrossed
with old rail lines, but some of them are mixtures of cobblestones with
concrete partially poured over them.

So, I really can't have much sympathy for this test, it sounds like a real
pussified version of what I have to ride through every day. I have to
ask you - does the entire test take place on _FLAT_ pavement? If
so, you have nothing to complain about.

Ted

 

I'm not sure about the dimensions of the MSF box but we know the dimensions
of the circle and the testing criteria (20 feet + one tiny mistake and you
fail).

What are the dimensions & testing criteria of the MSF box?

 

I don't know about bike riders, but I think that's about the right failure
rate for auto drivers. That is, about 95% of the people currently driving
automobiles are not competent to be on the road.

I suspect the level of competence of motorcycle riders is actually a little
higher than four-wheelers.

If you think a 95% failure rate is bad, you should SEE the European driving
tests.
--scott

 

How can they forbid you to play on their parking lot when they're closed?

--
barb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

read my blog!
http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/

 

The written test is mostly common sense, where the one for cagers has a
lot of traffic law.

Get this, I missed one question on the moto test. It was the question
about how to cross train tracks. Seems I got perpendicular and parallel
mixed up. D'oh!

--
barb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

read my blog!
http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/

 

Why would you want to publicly prove you can't ride as well as the rest
of us?

--
barb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

read my blog!
http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/

 

I think I'd kick your ass.

--
barb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

read my blog!
http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/

 

Actually, this is a piece of cake, if you practice a bit. If you can't
do this, then I recommend that you find someone to teach you how to ride.

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

 

Funny you should mention the psychological aspect. Highway 94 here has
these concrete patches that go for miles. They're about a foot wide, and
I like to see how long I can stay on one without going off. I'm very
good at staying on these concrete planks. However, if it was stretched
across the Grand Canyon, it'd probably be a whole nother story. I'd
probably spazz and fall into the Colorado River.

--
barb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

read my blog!
http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/

 

And rain. You forgot rain.

--
barb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

read my blog!
http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/

 

What's funny is, most people think they are highly skilled drivers.
There was a survey conducted a few years back that showed a significant
percentage of cagers overestimate their driving ability.

I had this neighbor from New Joisey. She was a big NASCAR fan. I rode
with her exactly *once.* Never again! She apparently thought watching
races qualified her to drive like an idiot; speeding, weaving through
traffic, slamming on her brakes at the last minute...yet she insisted
she was an exceptionally good driver. She had, however, been in two
serious traffic accidents, had the scars and dental work to prove it.
Both times, she was driving a Mustang. So she won't drive Mustangs. It's
the car's fault, you see. Funny enough, her name was Sally. She didn't
like it when I called her Mustang Sally, oddly enough.

--
barb
Chaplain, ARSCCwdne

buy my book!
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fAcctID=1198812

read my blog!
http://xenubarb.blogspot.com/

 

Good Dad! When it's my kids turn I'll do the same even though they've
been riding dirt bikes for years. Though I think when you're under a
certain age the MSF is mandatory anyway...

My buddy's reasoning for not taking the MSF beginner course is that he
wasn't a beginner. That he *had* his licence years ago and he let his
M/C endorsement lapse when he didn't have a bike. I couldn't get
through to him though...

Hey Paul, since we live so close to the place, you and I should shoot
a quick flick to post on YouTube, so that whenever this silly thread
pops up in the future we can just post a URL showing the actual
infamous keyhole test being performed on our big bikes.

 

Sounds like a fun idea. Email me offline.

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

 

I think you'd rather gamble than collect evidence. Get the same group
to show up on their liter bikes and maybe even get a DMV employee to
show up off duty so that the same level of discretion is applied in
judging the results. The important thing is not how many failures
before the first success, but how many failures out of how many riders.

If you can show that 95% of *licensed* riders cannot pass the test on a
liter bike, then you've got the basis for a discussion with the DMV. If
the failure rate is no higher than for example the rate at which new
auto drivers fail their first road test, you have exploded a myth. In
between those extremes, we can continue the debate.

Rich, Urban Biker

 

Interesting. My garage consists of 90 degree spaces and I usually back
my car into mine. With that orientation, the right edge of my space is
the garage wall, and the left edge a painted line that marks off my
neighbor's space. Somehow, if his car is present, I usually get mine
parked on the first try. If he's away, and I have to rely on just the
painted line, I usually have to adjust my first guess.

Rich, Urban Biker

 

In reality, it's tester's discretion to some extent.

When I took the test, I nailed it pefectly the first time except
that I put my foot down just a couple feet early on the way
out... on the straight section, no less. She looked at me,
smiled, and said, "try that again, eh?" I did. I passed.

I doubt most graders will fail you for a slight wobble outside
the lines as long as you do the rest of it well.

-Patti

 

No, you don't understand: IT IS NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

If you practice low-speed maneuvers, you CAN do it. Shit I did it on an
ancient CB900. That is one helluva top-heavy pig. Failed twice because I
was too proud to admit that with my years of experience I wasn't good enough
to pass. Just get some obstacles, plastic cups, cones, paint, blocks of
wood, doesn't matter. Space them ~12' apart, draw yourself a two circles at
the end about 2'3" apart, and PRACTICE IT. NOBODY does low-speed maneuvers
well without practicing, dumbass! You don't have to practice THEIR EXACT
COURSE. If you can weave around cones and drive between lines at low speed,
the spacing is not critical. Just practice. I did two nights of practice,
about an hour each night. Done like dinner. Nailed the test, it actually
felt fairly easy to do.

And as far as practicing the course, JUST GO TO THE DMV parking lot where
the course is set up after hours. You will NOT be arrested, REALLY the cops
have better things to do with their time.

 

But it's got no steering lock.


--
Beav

VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19