BMWs

why are they so expensive?

is it:

a) because they know the myrmidons who buy the things will pay over
the odds to "buy into the marque"?

or

b) genuinely something inherant in the R&D/manufacturing process that
means BMW have to charge more for their product than the Japs?

I mean, it's not like BMWs are totally crap, but they're at best "OK",
and every single bike in their range is overpriced (and in some cases
grossly so) compared to a similar model from a Japanese (or even
Italian) manufacture.

For example, I like the look of the HP2 Enduro, but £12K is beyond
taking the piss.

Discuss.

 

Almost certainly this one.

How my lot[1] have continued to be competitive whilst manufacturing in
the USA is quite some feat. How long it will last is another matter
entirely.


[1] also a 'premium' brand.

--
Dnc

B1200 - +30bhp ~|~ ZZR1100 - faster when upright
V2300 - flat cap and rug ~|~ A6 2.5TDi V6 Quattro Sport

MIB#26 two#54(soiled) UKRMMA#26 BOTAFOT#153 X-FOT#003

 

For cars, their continued love affair with rear wheel drive probably pushes
up manufacturing costs compared, say, to VW.

 

so you don't think there's any marketing hype component to the
pricing, then?

 

I was primarily talking about the bikes.

Build quality issues and design freakiness asside, the cars are
actually comparable price-for-price and feature-for-feature with other
marques, whereas the bikes most certainly aren't.

For example, what's the nearest Jap equivalent to, say the R1200S?
Probably something like an SV1000, which is about 1/2 the price and a
good deal faster.

 

My guess would be a combination of manufacturing cost, probably due to
the Japanese having better techniques, and the lower production run
meaning that BMW are amortizing a lot of their costs over a smaller
number of bikes.

 

Probably brand hype, then. Aren't a lot of BMW bike dealerships tacked on
to car showrooms? Doing that would automatically propel the bikes into a
premium brand position, I'd have thought. If people think that BMW make the
best cars, and see that they also make bikes, they might also assume that
BMW make the best bikes.

From an engineering standpoint, their dogged persistence in using a heavy
flat twin motor with a low centre of gravity, requiring a complex front
suspension and/or ABS setup to stop the front wheel skidding under breaking,
won't help in bringing the price down. I doubt shaft drive comes cheap,
either.

 

Yes, but I doubt that would account for the significant differences in
value that you talk of. There is a certain value in being "overpirced"
when you're a premium brand, but to be priced so far beyond the
competition without quantifiable justification isn't so clever. If BMW
were able to lower their prices, but remain in "premium" category,
they'd steal a lot of market share.

Of course, some people would declare that they are no longer a premium
brand, I suspect the same people that still believe Skoda are to be
avoided like the plague.

My lot is considered a premium brand, are priced accordingly so, yet we
are also the number one in what we do in terms of market share, volume
and revenue.




--
Dnc

B1200 - +30bhp ~|~ ZZR1100 - faster when upright
V2300 - flat cap and rug ~|~ A6 2.5TDi V6 Quattro Sport

MIB#26 two#54(soiled) UKRMMA#26 BOTAFOT#153 X-FOT#003

 

BMWs were never cheap, but these days their reputation for excellence is
possibly not so well deserved as in the /6 days or earlier.

As to brand hype in the car world, you need no better example than VAG.
Why buy an Audi when you can have virtually the same car but higher
spec. with a Skoda badge?

--

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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Moto Guzzi Mille GT/Squire RS3 Gilera Nordwest |
| Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+

 

There's another flaw that you didn't mention - by running this model of
frictional supply and demand, they're also limiting their future of
growth - which ties nicely into your R&D comments.

Poor R&D, lack of [truly]new products and a self limited growth plan
will only lead to them becoming niche market, then it's a self
fulfilling vicious circle.



--
Dnc

B1200 - +30bhp ~|~ ZZR1100 - faster when upright
V2300 - flat cap and rug ~|~ A6 2.5TDi V6 Quattro Sport

MIB#26 two#54(soiled) UKRMMA#26 BOTAFOT#153 X-FOT#003

 

Both. And lesser benefits of scale.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a
I demand nothing of you except that you amuse me.

Folding@Home Team UKRM
http://vspx27.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/main.py?qtype=teampage&teamnum=47957

 

OK - why are BMW more expensive than, say, KTM or Aprilia, for an
inferior comparable product.

 

Not in my experience, no. In fact, I've never seen a combined bike and
car BMW dealership.

 

[snip]

As I said in the OP, if it was significantly cheaper (like >30%
cheaper) I'd be very interested in an HP2, but even there, it's an
unknown quantity in terms of reliability etc.

I really must get my R65LS running...

 

[snip]

but why /are/ BMW bikes seen as a "premium" brand, given that model
for model, they're generally inferior in a fairly obvious way to other
makes?

I think BMW /is/ still seen as a premium brand, but as above, I can't
see /why/.

For the record, I'd have a Skoda if they made a car I liked.

 

their reputation for excellence is just that - a reputation - they
aren't in fact excellent in any meaningful definition of the word.

well, that's an easy one - that's just a matter of perceived taste.

It'll only be a matter of time before Skoda is considered comparable
with at least VW themselves though, probably leveraged by the success
of a single model (cf. the Seat Leon Cupra, and going back a bit, the
Audi Quattro).

 

[snip]

As you know, I've owned a BMW from new - I will confess that I
"believed the hype". The R1150GS is, as you know, a "good bike", but
it /is/ very overpriced, and with the new R1200GS, they seem to have
lost the plot reliability wise as well.

*ding*

I'm getting very close to the point that I'm going to be changing my
main bike, and although I'm 95% decided, I thought I'd just check what
the various manufacturers have on offer - I liked the look of the
R1200S when I saw it at the Ally Pally show, and earlier today checked
out the price - it's rediculous compared to any of the other bikes I'm
looking at, for a slower, heavier, possibly less reliable machine, and
this is why I posted this thread.

 

Because of the letters B, M and W. They're riding on big brother's back.

The same as UPS (the parcel people) has a sub company called UPS-SCS
(supply chain solutions) who are doing a lot of 3PL and heavy freight
movement. They're (SCS) a young company and not particularly capable
when compared to their peers, but, the brown colour scheme and UPS
branding means they get a lot of credit for what they can't yet achieve.



--
Dnc

B1200 - +30bhp ~|~ ZZR1100 - faster when upright
V2300 - flat cap and rug ~|~ A6 2.5TDi V6 Quattro Sport

MIB#26 two#54(soiled) UKRMMA#26 BOTAFOT#153 X-FOT#003

 

Possibly (I make no claim to be right) because Aprilia makes more
vehicles and KTM make a fairly limited range and have more commonality
between products.

 

Most BMW's use the same forks.

Many use the same engine - quite a lot of commonality there I would
have thought?