[QUOTE="Jim"] Sure: I was saying that the "top+1" case doesn't happen, rather than that I knew what number gear I was in all the time.[/QUOTE] I've done the top+1 thing on every bike I've ever ridden, including the thou. It's instinctive. Specific to your example of a middleweight twin, I made reference up there ^^^ to an entire weekend of trying to find 7th on an SV.