Bike blitz on lane splitting & hard shoulder riding - Brisbane

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 04 Jun 2007 07:21:14 -0700

THey tried last year. Hard lobbying work kept it out of the
Australian Road Rules.

If you split only alongside parked cars which have a marked lane to
themselves, keeping inside that lane at all times, then you might
manage it.

If you cross a marked lane at any time, then
- pass on the left
- not indicate lane change

And there's always
- pass too close

And I expect any variety of dangerous or negligent driving.

In practice, lanesplitting comes under Public Stupidity. A cop will do
you if they consider you guilty of being Knowingly Stupid In A Public
Place. If the split is done carefully and sensibly: the traffic's
stopped, the split is short, you get to the front before the lights go,
and you look like you are a safe and sensible rider then you probably
won't get done for Public Stupidity[1] although you might get a warning
depending on the cop. If they think you are reckless, careless, a prat,
or they dont much like bikes, or they cleaned up a dead rider the other
day, then they'll do you.

The aforementioned lobby work tried to get the traffic committee to
see that lanesplitting stopped traffic was safe and sensible in the
current congestion. The reaction was that it was incredibly unsafe
and sangerous, not to mention already illegal under various laws and
that the only reason to have a specific law was to make it clear the
practice was wrong. They didn't end up doing it, but why not is not 100%
clear and I expect them to try again soon.

Zebee

[1] the ticket will say something else, possibly only vaguely related,
you are being done for Public Stupidity. This is what that famous
"discretion" is about. A cop's discretion is them deciding if you are
being stupid or not, not your opinion of the same.

 

Thats a little simplistic , if as traffic directors they deliberatly and
knowingly offer illegal directions they can be prosicuted as well/instead .

 

And the "well if you don't know then I'M not going to tell you!!" retort
doesn't really help either!

 

Excelent point Alex , the Long term regulars of this Ng think they are the
be all to end all / or the mile stone that all most be compared to. I find
this new group very disapointing ( am i am sure i will be flamed for that
statement ) I ride both road bike and Trail bike - and also own a 4x4
nissan patrol (4.2 turbo diesel)with all the works that i USE as a 4x4 and
not a shopping cart - and out of the various forums i peruse this is the one
with the most ABUSE of subscribers( and the quickest to just to premature
conclusions ) - and the best is the 4x4 forums. Kind of makes you wonder
why bike riders are frowned upon by regular people huh ?

Boc

 

Mmmmm ? what for ? being c**ts ?

If you injure yourself in the process of following their directions
you could go them for negligence, but I'd be curious to know what else
you could "prosicute" them for.

JL
(on the other hand most courts would probably let you off if you
could show they really did tell you to do it of course the odds of
proving that are slim unless you have good witnesses )

 

unsure but there will be something

A sound witness ?
possibly
I was witness to something recently and attended the case to offer my
view (yes I was a witness), the magistrate chastised the two coppers ,
told them they were liars and threw it out of court with the promise of
light reparation to the accused and would be contacting their superiors
to register his concerns

That sort of thing does my heart good .

 

In aus.motorcycles on Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:21:05 -0000

I dunno if giving someone directions to perform an illegal act when
that person has reason to believe you are entitled to give them those
directions and/or disobeying them would be illegal is in itself
"illegal".

If a cop sells someone some dope and then gives you some and says
"sell it to the next bod" and you do, then you can be done for supply,
but so can they.

I have no idea if the "cops can do what they want on the road"
exemption means that they can ride up the hard shoulder, say "follow
me" and their mate can do you but the bike cop gets away with it.

Zebee

 

A copper has the same traffic powers as the blokes on the side of the
road with little signs , they have other powers which might be abused
however if you disobey a traffic instruction it's not normally up to the
person making the direction to prosecute a failure to obey (except for
some coppers), the correct procedure is send the information upline
until it reaches a suitable conclusion through management and possible
prosecution ( big fine too). So refusing a direction which you believe
is incorrect might get very interesting if the copper takes exception (
until you are injured) or it gets to court .

 

Unless there's a loophole I'm not aware of (still waiting for Atec to
tell us as he seemed to think he had a basis), no being directed to
undertake an illegal action can excuse you from culpability (ie get
you off) but doesn't make the act or your action any less illegal.

In other words, prove the copper told you to undertake an illegal
action and you'd be bloody unlikely to have any penalty or conviction
recorded. That is different however to being found not guilty...

There is no such exemption in law. Only in practise.

they can do that because they won't be held accountable, but in the
same way as it is illegal (in NSW anyway I believe the other states
are the same) for an ambulance or firetruck to drive on the wrong side
of the road, they are able to do so because of a tacit agreement that
they won't be held accountable by the police.

JL
(and I've been told of cases where young coppers have booked ambos -
possibly apocryphal - and the story usually ends with a sergeant
giving the rookie a very unpleasant time)

 

I cant find the information atm , although I though I saw it at the
wide bay tafe site re their traffic controller course which is in law
the same as the coppers are invested with ( but most wont admit it)
boiling down to responsibility and duty of care for ones actions so
making an illegal direction doesn't absolve you of the responsibility of
direction.

not really a road direction is it ?

 

GB wrote:

If a cop tells you to do something illegal, can that be a lawful
instruction?

regards,
CrazyCam

 

In aus.motorcycles on 7 Jun 2007 14:01:06 +1000

However the Vic cop directing me at the GP in 89 "What the hell are
you waiting for, split up the middle like everyone else!" probably
would

Zebee

 

<and more snip>

Thanks for that.

Pity it's not what I wanted to hear. :-|

I have, a couple of times, been flagged to stop by cops, and, where I
thought it was either illegal, or stupid, to do so.

I've gone on to a reasonable place then stopped.

Cops weren't impressed, but didn't do anything. <shrug>

regards,
CrazyCam

 

that's because to do so would place them and their teeny tiny reputation
in more jeopardy .

 

In aus.motorcycles on 7 Jun 2007 17:51:08 +1000

No idea if he was or not. But all the cops were focused on getting
traffic moving, and giving priority to bikes. So cars had to wait
while they waved the hordes of bikes through, and if cars were banked
up bikes were told to get to the front any way possible.

Dunno if any trailbike riders got big ideas...


Zebee

 

In aus.motorcycles on 7 Jun 2007 17:58:18 +1000

putting the left indicator on and slowing down some while doing lots
of head checking worked for me.

Showing I realised they wanted me to pull over, I wasn't runnig off,
and I was aware of safety issues. If you are going to use one finger,
put it up your own arse to save time....

Zebee

 

GB wrote:

I have to grudgingly admit that it isn't a frequent occurence.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Until there is an accident.

Theo

 

Chalkers with Attitude!

 

Notice this question never got answered?
I've never seen Brisbane coppers pay very much serious interest in
lane-splitters but they will stop you from riding in the emergency lane.