"Hi, my name is OGDON Happy to serve " -- Dan L (Oldbloke) My bike 1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr M'boy's bike 2003 Honda NSR125R (Going) Spare Bike 1990 Suzuki TS50X (Patio Ornament) BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005), X-FOT#000, DIAABTCOD #26, BOMB#18 (slow)
You have my deepest sympathy. I detest such things. "Lets go and hug a tree in the rain with our "friends" from the infrastructure company and everything will be alright". Doesn't stop them or us taking each to dispute over money. And not hugging trees doesn't mean you can't have effective working relationships. I was famously (well in parochial LT terms) taken for a cup of coffee to "help me understand that saying nasty things [1] about the infrastructure company is not helpful". After 45 minutes the infrastructure company director [2] said "oh well it was worth a try but I suppose I should have known you'd not change your mind". This was after I had said I was not prepared to be censored and that I would praise the company when they did something good and until then they would receive due criticism. [1] the truth [2[ that a certain Mr Day of this parish knows
I have been very directly made aware that constructive criticism from me is unwelcome, as part of a recent delivery of last straws. The CV is currently being valetted.
I'll give you a call sometime in the afternoon, once I know what I'm doing. I'll almost certainly go but Fraser's have got the Z at the moment[1], and I'm not quite sure what time I'm picking it up. [1] Just a service originally but they reckoned it needs a new air filter so they've hung onto it for an extra day. If they're done with it in time I might knock off early.
I didn't have a bike then, unfortunately. -- Dan L (Oldbloke) My bike 1996 Kawasaki ZR1100 Zephyr M'boy's bike 2003 Honda NSR125R (Going) Spare Bike 1990 Suzuki TS50X (Patio Ornament) BOTAFOT #140 (KotL 2005), X-FOT#000, DIAABTCOD #26, BOMB#18 (slow)
Sounds very much like my time at Motorola. Why they bothered hiring technical people who knew their stuff is beyond me - they never listened to anything any of us recommended. And dissent was most definately *not* allowed - especially where a senior manager might see or hear it. They even banned me from putting up Dilbert cartoons! Phil
It will be their loss. You're obviously one of those pesky people who know too much and aren't prepared to keep their gobs shut. The ladder climbing careerists tend not to like such people in case they take too many rungs out of the ladder due to "problems". <mini rant> Still I had a nice meeting today with my infrastructure company partners and left the room feeling like I had had my intelligence insulted for a full 90 minutes. "Paul you really need to understand our position". "Yes I do understand it". "Paul you really need to see things from our viewpoint". "Yes". etc etc. Eventually "I heard you the first time. There really is no reason to repeat yourself." And we ended with me providing an update on an issue about the director level pressure we are applying and my "chum" basically disbelieving everything I've just said. This then made me question why he was not accepting everything I'd told him as the truth. "Oh I do but ..." which then left me asking him if he thought I was a liar. "Oh no I wouldn't say that" and then he tactfully kept his gob shut. A lovely way to spend your lunch hour. How does sweller put it? - oh yes "stabby, stabby, stabby".
Knowing a bit about what Platy is doing and where he's doing it, I'm not at all surprised, he's also not alone in having had it happen.
As I said to a colleague the other day when he was stressing out "How many people are likely to die if this project gets delayed, or there's a problem with it?" "None" he replied. "Great, well there you go then, it's not all *that* important... ....But don't loose perspective, that means we'll all still be here to take the piss out of you if you **** up." It seemed to cheer him up a little.
I'm not sure if I'd be able to cope with what you do. Fortunately, my relationship in meetings with mangers, both minions and senior types, is somewhat different. I find "say what you're thinking" always useful. Certainly more entertaining.
I assure you I would. I deal with the NHS every day as part of my job - and *nothing* would surprise me now. Phil
Well I think you'd enjoy it up to a point because you know how the world works and are clearly good at developing a case, arguing it and knowing where the pitfalls come. The TUs are far better at teaching their people how to do all that than management ever are. Negotiation is not a "natural" thing for me and I need time to consider matters and I certainly have to be prepared. Some people are instinctively good at doing deals / negotiating but I don't possess that "natural" flair. I'd love to see you in action in a "negotiation" with your Southern management "colleagues" but I fear the day will never come to pass. It's when people are clearly not telling the truth or bullshitting that I get very pissed off. I also strongly dislike being treated like an idiot. Other than that I can deal with most things. Is this with alcoholic enhancement or without?
We're not specifically trained in negotiation as such. I think the method we use to select the negotiators is the key point. We're elected and re-elected regularly and as this is essentially based on results and results alone it soon sorts those who can deliver those who can't fairly early on. You can wing it to certain degree but in reality preparation is everything. I'm led to understand I have a somewhat abrasive approach and "a look that leaves in no doubt his opinion of an individual or issue". We also have a rather direct and 'industrial' approach. Never - negotiations are done sober, deals and face saving arrangements are occasionally done in the bar. Although a manager's minion once threatened to glass me but that's a different story.
