Any future in air-cooled?

I don't think so, actually - one of the reasons for having
smaller-capacity version of the bikes is that in Germany you pay vehicle
tax per 100cc, so a smaller capacity version makes sense. Hence them
getting the R850RTs and GSs, which I think we never officially got. And
if we didn't (I think the GS was available here but not the RT), it
didn't sell very well. And of course smaller-capacity bikes are cheaper
to insure as well....

 

Sorry if this is considered topic drift, I have a question for the many
people who know about physics than I do. Compared to 'water'-cooling,
what is the relative effect of adding a similar amount of oil that is
routed to an external cooler?


(eg., an engine that has two litres amongst the sump, transmission,
valve train and cylinder and, at any given time, two more litres
circulating through the external system as opposed to an engine with two
litres of oil and two litres of water/glycol type coolant. Only asking
about the physical or engineering comparison, not whether more engine
oil is politically correct these days!)

 

Sorry if this is considered topic drift, I have a question for the many
people who know about physics than I do. Compared to 'water'-cooling,
what is the relative cooling effect of adding a similar amount of oil
that is routed to an external cooler?


Would that cool 10% as well as the water/glycol, 50%, 75%?


(eg., an engine that has two litres amongst the sump, transmission,
valve train and cylinder and, at any given time, two more litres
circulating through the external system as opposed to an engine with two
litres of oil and two litres of water/glycol type coolant. Only asking
about the physical or engineering comparison, not whether more engine
oil is politically correct these days!)

 

I had a 1971 H1 which got stolen and still have a 1974 H2. While the
750 is much more civilized (disk brake, torque below 5K rpm, stiffer
frame) the 500 was a blast in part because it was so uncivilized. It
was also quicker off the line than the 750 due to its lighter weight,
and much quicker than my KZ1000. Of course the bigger bikes would
storm past once they got rolling.

PS I do remember actually putting my feet down trying to stop the 500
one time because the drums just weren't getting the job done.

 

In 1985, Suzuki announced their new Suzuki Advanced Cooling system
which used extra oil and a large oil cooler. This system was used on
GSXR's and Katanas for 20 years, until more stringent emissions
requirements pointed towards
water cooling and fuel injection for the GSXF650 successor to the
Katana.

The specific heat of water is 1.0. It takes 1 BTU to raise 1 pound of
water 1 degree Fahrenheit.

The specific heat of oil is about 0.5, so it takes 0.5 BTU to raise 1
pound of oil 1 degree F.

The specific heat of pure glycol is also about 0.5, but nobody I know
is using anything but a 50% glycol/water mixture for a street bike if
they live in an area where it freezes in the winter.

The specific heat of coolant is probably about 0.75 and it is slightly
better in picking up heat to move it to a radiator than oil is.

Suzuki took advantage of the fact that the extra 2 quarts of oil in a
GSXR motor with SACS can make direct with the moving parts, instead of
having to be kept separate from the moving parts as is needed with
coolant.

Suzuki flooded the top of the combustion chambers with so much oil
they needed 1-inch diameter return tubes from the cam covers to the
crankcase. And they aimed jets of oil up under the pistons to cool the
piston heads.

One tech article I read concerning the GSXR was that oil temperature
could never exceed 260 degrees Centigrade with the SACS system. I
think that was a mistake, because 260 C is 500 degrees F and my Suzuki
manual never said anything about using a synthetic oil.

I think that the SACS design keeps the oil temperature down to less
than 260 degrees F.

Of course, street bikes don't make nearly as much heat as race bikes,
so the SACS oil cooler is only about 12" X 15". The racing kit oil
cooler is thicker and a second, triangular shaped cooler was built to
fit inside the fairing lowers.

Race kits for water-cooled bikes look the same, and rules don't allow
the use of slippery glycol.

Impoverished WERA racers couldn't afford to buy factory race kits, so
they stuck rectangular oil coolers anywhere they could, even up under
the seat.

 

I didn't know that.

As you say - I've seen the very occasional 850GS appear for sale, but
never an 850RT.

 

As we were talking transverse fours, in this instance, yes it does.

 

<G>

Same thing, really, except that transverse usually refers to the way the
cylinders are arrange wrt to the chassis.

So a Nimbus or an old BMW K is "inline". And most Jap fours are
transverse.

 

Transverse would mean that the axis of the crankshaft goes across the bike.

Inline merely means all the cylinders are in a straight line, as opposed
to a V or an opposed cylinder layout.

So, an inline motor can be transversely mounted, (or not) but a
transversely mounted motor does not have to be an inline motor. The
Honda V4s are an example of transversely mounted non-inline motors.

--
"Outback" Jon - KC2BNE

AMD Opteron 165 (@2.5) and 6.1 GHz of other AMD power...
http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 53560

2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157

 

I think you're confusing the storm drain system with the sewer system.
The storm drain system is just that, it's intended to channel rain
water to the bay, and if there is a high bacteria count after a rain,
it's because of what people dumped or washed into the storm drains at
the curbs.

I can only think of one occasion when partially treated sewage from a
pumping plant wound up in the storm drain system at Ballona Creek.

But would you even consider taking your used motor oil into your
bathroom and flushing it down the toilet? That's how oil would get
into the sewer system.

 

Malibu Creek is an unchannelized storm drain. It would look terrible
if it was concrete-lined, wouldn't it>

So the lagoon is a natural biological trickling filter where I can
watch ducks and shore birds. While the birds are swimming and diving
in it, bacteria is hppily digesting whatever nutrients (if any) are
still in the water.

Tapia is prohibited from discharging what is supposed to be fully
treated, drinking-water pure effluent to the ocean from May to
November.

Tapia engineers wanted to construct more ponds upstream to be natural
trickling filters.

http://malibusurfsidenews.com/blog/2007_08_01_archive.html

 

One thing I wondered about: Water cooled bikes (as well as modern cars) have
a thermostatically controlled fan to pull air through the radiator when the
water temp gets high enough. Why not put a similar fan behind the oil cooler
of an air cooled bike to pull air through the oil cooler when the oil
reaches a certain level? This would make getting stuck in traffic less
tense...

 

But Hollywood directors would like it to be paved so they can film car
chases.

Unfortunately, the canyons are filling up with yuppies. And yuppie
sewage has to go somewhere, even if it goes into septic tanks, there
is still a leach line for the water to comes off the top of a full
cesspool.

A docent at Peter Strauss Ranch is a sort of "gentleman farmer" who
raises fancy chickens for a hobby. He lives off Encinal Canyon and he
told me that the city of Malibu had an "anti-mansionifaction"
ordinance to prevent the hills visible from the ocean into looking
like Italy or the French Riviera with mansions built right next to
each other.

As I was listening to him pointing out every poison oak bush to the
tour group, I could hear the Harleys cruising through Cornell, and I
thought, "If I owned a million dollar house up here, I would do
anything to close Mulholland Highway to non-residents, or I would find
a way to shut down The Rock Store.

Well, the whole ocean is a trickling filter for that matter. A
trickling filter grows anaerobic bacteria on a medium of some sort.
Sewage treatment plants pump water past plastic pellets and your home
aquarium sucks water through colored gravel.

Fresh water is not too bad for trickling and digesting whatever solids
are still in the water, as long as the pH is on the acidic side. The
digestion process results in nitrates added to the water, and nitrates
fertilize the algae, leading to a toxic algal bloom called "red tide".

Also, farmers use nitrate fertilizer on their crops and that stuff
washes down the Santa Clara river into the ocean at Oxnard and Point
Mugu.

I was walking along the cobblestone "beach" north of the Ventura river
a few years ago and found a dead Elephant Seal, two dead Steller's Sea
Lions and two dead Dolphins.

The ocean smelled like a giant kitty litter box that hadn't been
cleaned for a month.

The problem was Domoic acid poisoning that attacks the central nervous
system of birds and sea mammals

Seawater itself has an alkaline pH and excess materials cause the
formation of nitrites which are directly deadly to fish, but in a
warmer environment and lots of algae fertilized by nitrates, certain
plankton thrive and the anchovies eat the plankton and build up
poisons and the birds and sea mammals eat the anchovies and die.

A dead Elephant Seal makes a horrible mess on the beach.

With fires, floods, earthquakes, and mudslides, Malibu is a poor place
for modern humans to inhabit, unless they are Chumash Indians living
on the beach and enjoying the abundance of the sea and the hills. They
called it "Maliwu", in reference to the sound of the pounding surf...

 

Not a bad idea, that.

 

That would work fine, if the land was all flat up in the canyons, but
it's mostly houses perched in hillsides. The leached water is going to
run down the watershed into a creek.
.

It's too steep to build anything on the north side of Boney Peak
anyway.

I encountered six rattlesnakes last time I walked up there.

It's a beautiful hike from Satwiwa up onto the ridge or down Big
Sycamore Canyon and I'm glad that the Santa Monica mountains were
saved from the fate that befell Fallbrook.

Well, if they were going to build a road at all, there were places it
had to be built right next to the ocean. Before automobiles, the
stagecoaches
had to run right next to the surf's edge.

 

Mark Olson points to:

When I click on that I get an ad for Barack Obaama. He selling
air-cooled motorcycles?


Go fast Take chances.
Mike S.

 

With 1100 cc.s how hard are you really stressing that engine on the
average?

 

Look at the power output and answer your own question....