And away we go!

exactkly, just as irrevelant as it was when the AMA Procracing folks were
running it, and you didn't exactly "deal with it" you pissed and moaned
all the time.

This is a discussion group about racing. I doubt that anyone here thinks
there opinions matter a hill of beans to the folks who actually runt things
in any of the series, just having discussions.

When I hear the DMG guys were the ones, I said it could be interesting,
they have the bucks and clout to make things happen, and new regimes are
always easier to make changes, but I stated I was worried they go to far
and in my eyes not make it racing as I like it. But I started with an
open mind. The more I see/hear the more my initial fears are being realized.
They have a plan that is out of phase with me ( and much of the current
fan base) so teh might be sucessful in financial terms in creating and
entirely different product, but it will prbably hold very little interest
for me watching it.

The way it looks to me is they had a new MC series all planned out, the had
already started the MotoST series, and were obviously planning the DSB thing
and were gonna try to grow a competing series to what AMA had. But then the
AMA gave them th oportunity to avoid competition for eyes/riders/tracks/etc
bye selling them the AMA series - at which point they ditched everything
about it and rebranded ther stuff as AMA racing - even though t has absolutley
nothing to do with an AMA racing ever run, or pretty much any other racing series
in the world - oh well. Maybe this will mean more of an influx of US ruiders
into WorldSBK looking to race for real.

Or maybe the Flaminis can try something - start a FIM sanctioned series called
USSBK - run exact same rules as WorldSBK but as a US series - overlap a few dates
with WorldSBK - some US Riders could have wild card entries in those races as the
rules would be the same. It would be easier for Factory involvement as the rules
would be the same.

Bruce


Bruce

 

T3 asks:

No idea why. Sent you one.

Yep, tickets purchased though not in hand.
Bozo did that part of the program and he's keeping
them.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.

 

You have to understand the OEM's position in this deal is quite
different from most fans, that is, the core fan base. Core fans, at
least the one's I and most likely DMG considers core fans, are taking
the wait and see attitude. When you, or someone else proclaims they've
spent their last dollar going to races without even seeing the rule
book, much less waiting to go to one sorta' cut themselves out of that
herd and in some cases that reveals they had agenda's just like the
OEMs, at least to me..

For Christ's sake, calling them racist? Dude, the only color these guys
are partial to is green and they don't give a tinker's dam the color of
who sends it their way!!

I don't know what you saw as you've effectively and very publicly
removed yourself from the real fan base. If SB is still the premiere
class I saw little more than a Suzuki commercial that started to take
shape at Barber, but now looks complete. The last few years the only
drama was for 3rd place anyway, now that looks to be settled too and if
anyone say's they saw a good SB race they musta' been looking a
something different than I was..

\1. Ben Spies (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, 28 laps
2. Mat Mladin (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -0.011-second
3. Tommy Hayden (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -31.328 seconds
4. Neil Hodgson (Hon CBR1000RR), Dunlop, -34.392
5. Jason DiSalvo (Yam YZF-R1), Dunlop, -37.523
6. Eric Bostrom (Yam YZF-R1), Dunlop, -46.212
7. Jamie Hacking (Kaw ZX-10R), Dunlop, -67.094
8. Scott Jensen (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, -1 lap *
9. Matt Lynn (Hon CBR1000RR), Dunlop, -1 lap, 27.793 seconds
10. Dean Mizdal (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -2 laps
11. Tim Knutson (Suz GSX-R1000), -2 laps, 8.686 seconds
12. Johnny Rock Page (Yam YZF-R1), Dunlop, -3 laps
13. Miguel Duhamel (Hon CBR1000RR), Dunlop, -18 laps, DNF, retired
14. Aaron Yates (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -19 laps, DNF, crash
15. Jake Holden (Hon CBR1000RR), Dunlop, -22 laps, DNF, retired *
16. Geoff May (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -24 laps, DNF *
17. Jason Pridmore (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -27 laps, DNF *
18. Robertino Pietri (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, DNS *
19. Jeremy Toye (Hon CBR1000RR), Dunlop, DNS *
20. Hawk Mazzotta (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, DNS *
21. Chris Peris (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, DNS *

That pretty much says it all..

SSport and FX was another deal and "oddly enough" where DMG is focusing..
SStock,(aka Gixxr cup) beyond Holden, who really cares? Suzuki, that's who!
1. Jake Holden (Hon CBR1000RR), Dunlop, 17 laps
2. Aaron Yates (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -0.174 second
3. Blake Young (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, -0.574
4. Robertino Pietri (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, -3.029 seconds
5. Jason Pridmore (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -4.622
6. Chris Peris (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -6.017
7. Chris Ulrich (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, -16.459
8. Scott Jensen (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, -16.610
9. Geoff May (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -19.169
10. David Anthony (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, -25.435
11. Ryan Elleby (Suz GSX-R1000), Pirelli, -34.248
12. Shane Narbonne (Suz GSX-R1000), Dunlop, -50.826

Again, you're missing the boat, or in this case, missed the boat. M/C
racing in this country was broke, and broke not only in the
dysfunctional sense, but insolvent as well. To continue it had to
improve and with any improvement always comes with change and there's
little doubt of that simple fact. Now, if someone feels the need to
go-off on what could, or might have been, I suppose that's okay, but in
doing so they tend to miss what actually DID happen, as well as what IS
happening and that's just one of the reasons I think that type of tract
is frivolous and a waste of time..

Ya'know, I get real tired repeating myself and who knows, maybe you're
counting on that, but for the last time, any attempt to make these guys
out bumpkins, racist, rednecks, or whatever is total bullshit. If
anything their track records suggests something 180 degrees in the
opposite direction..

Sure, I got a little wood seeing you eat some crow and possibly will
again if this deal works out, but beyond that and *at this time* I
really don't have an opinion. Now, I think they've said they're going
to address many of the ills M/C racing in this country suffers and
while there's no reason for me to think they won't, *until they
actually do* and I've had time to see it, I will delay any judgement
and that's what I think is the difference between a "core fan" and
others who probably have agenda's. I realize this is most likely a
waste of time on you, but passing judgement on something you don't
really know about and damn sure haven't seen is, at least to me, pretty
f'ing dumb. Until then, I see this more as a who done it soap opera
that ended up a high stakes poker game and will concentrate more on the
subtleties and nuances involved, because at this point that's all
anyone outside the real player's can do. Understand, I know there's a
lot of folks put off so far and that's human nature, but that's also
denying the fact that it was broken. That covers the non-critical
part, the non-analytitcal part is so far off I actually chuckled! If
anything, I'm waaaay to analytical for my own good.....

 

I pointed out their shortcomings and how I felt they were screwing
things up, and correct me if I'm wrong, not only was I right, but DMG
hasn't really done anything yet. Trust me on this, I'm an equal
opportunity bitcher if there ever was one, but I know it's best to wait
until something is done first. As far as the old Proracing goes, I
think they had a few very good ideas, unfortunately and evidently those
ran counter to some of the OEM's desires and ultimately got
marginalized, or bastardized to the point they were meaningless, but
that was then, and this is now and one thing I try hard not to do is
focus on the past. That Proracing is dead and gone, RIP..

Heh, I wouldn't go that far..

Bruce, I understand that you don't have to experience jumping off the
roof to know you won't like it when you reach the ground, but this is a
little different, don't you think? *IF* these guys do as they say, and
there's no reason at this time for me to think otherwise, M/C racing in
this country is going to change in a huge way and passing judgement on
what it will, or may look like is more projecting than anything else,
at least to me and that's far from an endorsement..

Ok, now you're talkin', yes, it seems they did have a plan and for some
time too, but I wonder how much they *invested* in that plan beyond
just talking about it and there's where I see some drama, or possibly
even breach of trust, or collusion. Was the Dinger brought in just for
that reason and who on the board was involved? I dunno' and probably
never will, but I'd sure like to..

I wouldn't go as far to say they don't care about what happens
elsewhere, but going by their past business model it's prolly safe to
say they see it as a national series as it's own end and if Nascar, or
Grand AM say anything, it screams just that. So, if anyone expected to
see this new deal as some sort of primer for WSBK, or MGP, well, I
dunno for sure, but I'm thinkin' they might be disappointed..

Racer's like to race, but trust me on this, the like to get paid too
and they'll race pretty much where that happens. The question is, or
might be, is that gonna happen here?

I think you have to look at their past actions to even get a murky
picture of what might be, because a lot of what they've done might not
transfer to bikes??? Well, from what I've heard that was pretty much
what the Sports Car guys said too, at first anyway, now they say
something a "little" different, so, for me at least, it's best to wait..

One things for certain, this ain't over by any stretch of the
imagination, or is it? I dunno for sure, but it kinda looks like
they've put some of the Jap OEM's in a box on the SB deal. Did the
economy have something to do with it? Did DMG, at the last minute
relent, or was it part of a well thought out plan? These are some of
the things I find fascinating and in leu of any DSB racing right now
and what really else is there to consider?

Most all the crap you read is just that too, as I believe the real
decisions will (or maybe already have) happen on Speedway Blvd, in
board rooms of the OEM's, corporate sponsors and banks, not by racing
chiefs who might see their dynasty disappearing, so I take take those
with a grain of salt too..

Dream on...

On another note, I was off last week fine tuning the new leg and
supposedly painting some rooms at, ahem, "request." The former has
worked out pretty well so far, but the latter has "suffered" mostly
because I hate to fucking paint, but if I know what's good for me I
better get my lazyass busy, so don't expect a reply until she says I'm
finished..

Btw, did anyone here get their *economic stimulus buck$*? A pleasant
$600 surprise this morning to say the least, though I have no idea what
I can buy to actually stimulate anything other than maybe China's
economy, as we don't really make anything here anymore! Oh well,
there's always MC and Exxon...

 

Pay somebody to do the painting for you.

 

Supper break;

My very first thought, but nooooo, we're doing a ben wa, boo hoo, or
pheng shui deal(you pic) and it's best done by us, or so I'm directed
to believe. Hmm, I wonder if that means I get to replace the carpet I
just fucked-up too!

 

My area? Your "provincialness" is showing, again too. But what some
poll means is, well, nothing, beyond the web hits generated anyway..

Dude, I've heard people say their going to do this, or that and when
the time comes what they said wasn't anything close to what they
actually did. Do I think these guys are serious? Yes I do, but things
can change and that's ONE reason I'm cautious. Neither one of us know
for sure if they aren't just floating some shit, or playing one OEM off
on the other and I can't imagine this not being a very fluid type thing
right now, so why get your panties in a wad? Unless of course you have
an agenda contrary to just business as usual and it's obvious you do..

Um, you did and in your usual backhanded way too. Although I'd have
much more respect for someone who just comes right out and said it
versus innuendo, but I understand that's how you communicate, or at
least attempt to.
Money? Of course it's about making money, just as it is right now
today, so what's your point?

M/C racing is coming home and they do own it, what's that have to do
about waiting and seeing?

Oh puhleeze, there hasn't been a SB race in what, 3 years that the
first and second place weren't pre-determined and a forgone conclusion,
now barring injury to Hayden it would appear the box is complete too.
I'm not saying Yosh cheats, or anything like that, I am saying it SUKS
to know who's going to win before anyone even shows up, it suks for the
riders, but it really suks for the show. To say the disparity in SB is
glaring is an understatement! Today's SB as the premiere class in this
country leaves a lot to be desired, a whole lot..

I'm not prepared to go as far to say they're head and shoulders better
than everyone, but I can easily say Suzuki is outspending everyone and
has for quite some time too. Oh, and by the way, they do so to make the
money you seem to disdain..

The "races," that is, the one's not pre-determined were almost
exclusively in the middleweight classes, that Corona and Holden did
well in SStock only adds promise to DMG's vision, as far as I see
anyway.
As far as tracks go, there is only one, or two and that's with today's
SB, if recent history says anything they'll outgrow them soon too.
Look, we aren't Europe and we don't have all those good tracks that's a
fact you seem to conveniently ignore, we do have a few marginal ones
that could be much better, but unless there's a financial reason to
invest the money needed to make them better and safer that's not going
to happen and why should it? Track owners like money, that's why, and
though they're not afraid to spend some to make some they have to be
fairly sure they'll be able to attract people first and SB racing isn't
going to do that for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, there's
no chance for anyone not under an OEM umbrella to do anything but run
around a lap, or so down. Now, maybe you like to see that, but track
owners do not, so until you get a bundle of bucks and go build a few,
someone has to deal with it. I think it's called reality and you might
want to check it out sometime..
Dude, if I had my way there'd be 10, 0r 12 tracks like Road America
spread evenly around the country and all would be finished like Barber,
but you know what? There's probably more chance me winning the lotto as
anything remotely like that happening, ever. Again, it's reality..

As long as that choice is Suzuki? Though I do find your very recent
warming to SStock curiously amusing..

That's just one way I feel that SOME of the OEM advantages can be
lessened, but that's just my opinion and we both know what body part
that represents..

Suzuki bought another class and whether it happened thru contingency's,
the lack of real competition, or whatever doesn't really matter at this
point, does it? That they did, or were able to should say something
about the health and direction of the series, don't you think? I damn
sure do! And pluhleeze don't take that as a swipe at Yosh, or 'Zuki,
I'd say the same thing if it was Duc, Yam, Honda, or hell, prolly even
Harley.
What I'm getting at here is why I feel reducing the OEM's footprint is
a pre-requesite for any expansion of the sport and without expansion
there's very little, or no hope of improvement...

Hmm, let me ponder the "not making" any to the "making" some for about
..000001 secs, ok? All right, now I'm with ya', damn that was a tough
one!
I dunno what kind of business you may know, but if one's not making any
they're what? Just floating, or something like that? You either make
it, or you don't and when you don't you lose money, it's that fucking
simple and you're brand of revisionist history won't change it. Setting
up Proracing was sold to the rank and file as a money maker for the
good of all, just turn out to be something quite the contrary is pretty
much what happened and that's all I have to say, politely anyway,
besides, they're old news..

The fact of the matter is you're to busy trying to put any and all
things you don't like down and most times you miss a lot doing so. You
seem to think your thoughts better than any and when someone, anyone
challenges, or disagrees, well, as they say, the shit hits the fan.
That's why I view you kinda childish, as you can't seem to grasp the
concept that yours is just yours, no better, or worse than any others..

Well then, maybe you should stop and go find some new material..

Again, I doubt these guys really care, what part of that don't you
understand? They're not in the making Euro's, Yen, or Pounds business,
so why should they care? If any statement they've made so far has been
clear it's that they see DSB as it's own end and if you don't like it,
oh well. Mark, they spent the bucks and it's theirs to do as they
please, just like it would be yours if you bought it, that you know you
won't like it before it even happens speaks volumes, loudly too.

and thank-you?
...

You're the one who said you'd never go and if I recall correctly,
wouldn't bother to even watch it on the tube, not me! You see, that's
probably one the differences between a core fan and someone who's
interested in just one small aspect the way they have to have it and
while your preference is a valid one, it's really only yours. Heh, I'd
probably go watch the AARP mine-bike nationals if that's all I could
get and why is that? It's because I LIKE (ALL) BIKE RACING! That said,
if I had my choice I'd much rather watch DT miles/half and maybe SX
before road racing, at least as it is today, but that's just what I
like and beyond me, who cares?
If, as you say, you've already made your mind up, great! I applaud your
intuitiveness and perception, but as I'm sure you know, many don't
possess your all knowing wisdom and will be saddled with painful task
of actually experiencing it first...

You care? It seems you'll only care if it's exactly the way you deem it
should be and if you cared so much, why didn't, or don't you bother to
join the AMA?

Only someone with an agenda could say M/C racing in this country(less
SX) isn't in trouble, either stagnant, or dying..

Specifically what's to discuss? When I actually see and have time to
read a rule book I'll be more than happy to give an opinion on it if
you'd like, and when I see a few DSB races I'll talk about them too,
but until that happens I believe it's best to wait, but again, that's
just me...

 

Well lookie here, whaditellya'?
http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineID=12210

Now, did the OEM's blink after finally realizing they'd boxed
themselves in and are trying to wiggle, or just now realizing a
big-time game is afoot? Hard to say at present, maybe it was all, or
possibly none of the above, but if I had to guess I'd think the cold
hard facts of the economy might have had a little to do with it. With
DMG bringing their people in and Edmundson getting some insulation it's
probably going to get even more difficult to tell what's really
happening, so pay close attention to the next few moves, as I can see a
possible end game in the making and not just a settlement either, but
most likely the way DMG really wanted things to begin with, but we'll
see and I'd imagine, fairly soon too...

 

How did the OEM box themselves in? They wanted to Superbike rules, so
DMG says - OK, but you have to field 4 bikes. Currently none of the
direct factory teams do that - so it was a big jump for most, they
then say hey - we can't afford that. So DMG gets what they want (killing
off the real superbikes) but does it in a way that it looks like it was
the OEMs choice.

Bruce

 

Supersports (WSS/BSB-SS not AMA Supersports) spec engines in SBK chassis
on a spec tyre? You mean just like BSB this year? Surely not.

 

I still want to see something in print, *BUT* if I understand it
correctly, besides maybe the spec fuel, rolling starts and radio's
bling it's beginning sound pretty much like BSB and "maybe" just what
DMG had in mind from the outset too. Now, down the road a ways, who
f'ing knows, but at present it looks like they're beginning to play
ball, though exactly who and how long they stay in the game remains to
be seen...

 

Ayup, pretty much and maybe..
If I understand it correctly, and believe me there's still some things
that remain unclear, Edmundson had already publicly dealt some cards, a
mostly stock Litre bike and his DSB vision and it looks like that might
have thrown the Jap's off their game a little. They really wanted, or,
in Yosh's case, demanded adherence with the previously agreed to '09,
'10 rules and while at the time it might have appeared he blinked, or
relented, maybe the, "you want it so bad, then you fully fund it" bone
he threw them had a hook hidden, and possibly a well thought out one
too. If they work out some SStock-like litre bike deal, it saves the
Jap's face, as well half-way guaranteeing their presence in the paddock
for a couple of years while DMG gets their sea legs and I'd imagine
those years will be spent building DSB too, then if it works out, or
the Jap's ass-up and leave, oh well. Though, at this time, I still
doubt that will happen, but I also believe this is going to be a fairly
fluid thing for some time to come and wouldn't bet on it..
I guess a lot of what I had been saying was "somehow" skewed to me
being all for this new deal, but beyond jabbing your buddy it really
wasn't. Though what I said before hasn't changed one bit, the old ways
of dealing with AMA racing are past, this is far from these new guys
first bar-b-cue and they know how to deal with OEM's and have been
doing so fairly successfully for a long time. That's also why I think
most all the big issues will be settled in board rooms and not so much
by racing chiefs, because in the rarified air of nine zero's and three
commas that's pretty much how it goes...

 

If you liked that I think you will like these even better. It's the
1961 Laconia AMA National. And keeping it on topic, in the third of
four clips they had to stop the race and re-start it. They did so by
starting each rider at timed intervals equal to their spacing at the
end of the last lap before the race was stopped. BTW, I remember
having an endurance race I was in re-started that way back in the
80's.

The link brings up clip 4 of 4 but provides links to all 4, so you
might want to start with 1 of 4. It also gave a bigger screen if you
click on the links.

Enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/user/thepixleys2000

Bruce

 

I don't believe SB's as we know them really have much future in racing,
and mostly because of their cost I think most/some of the Jap OEM's
have/had that feeling too, whether a Stock Litre has one remains to be
seen and beyond that who fucking cares what I want. Spec fuel, tires,
radios and moving starts have all been used in racing before and are
hardly a new concept, however, I do think the familiarity of longer
races and pit stops would be an easier sell to new fans and new fans
means a growing sport and as far as I can tell, growing the sport is
what these new guys are all about.

I'm saying and have said, I take most all of it right now with a grain
of salt, as it's mostly just posturing and politics. Until I see
something in print I really don't know what else I can do, but that's
just me and the way I deal with most things. You may find that overly
simple, or whatever, but it keeps me from getting worked-up over things
that might happen and ignoring what is happening..

Who fuckin' knows, or cares? Obviously, you feel things were great and
see no reason for a change and trust me, that you feel that way doesn't
bother me at all, it's how you present your biased and pretentious
views that I can't pass on and like recently when I have the time I'll
call you on them..

I wrote that? Really? Damn, I musta' took a few smart pills that day!

Zuki' bought the class, that is, they invested more than anyone else
was prepared to do. There's no fault, and I don't think I've ever said
anything different..

those guys wouldn't even be there."

Again,Ê what I'm into doesn't matter, though I do believe Yosh winning
everything doesn't do much for the sport and damn sure won't do
anything as far as growing it. Do me a favor and elaborate on this if
you will, "which is knowing that for the rules some or most of those
guys wouldn't even be there," because it sounds like you desire some
sort of tilted rule book..

I'm not prepared to go that far, though I might say the chances of
winning are improved with buck$, but on the other hand, racing
history's replete with well-funded teams that suk'd..

No shit Sherlock and look how well that's workin'-out? Jeeze...

You c'mon, "not quite the same?" Beyond that BS I saw a 17 year old kid
ride the wheels off a bike, while besting a few vet's..

The way the team is set-up, how it's funded, their relationship to
Honda for starters..

Whoa, I didn't say Barber was ok, I said it's a real nice place and
very pleasantly different from what I'm accustomed to seeing when I go
to a track. Besides it's location(Al) I think they need a straight, but
evidently Barber doesn't and he's really the only guy that matters.
Laguna and most likely Miller aren't my things, but that's mostly to do
with my dislike of the desert and it's ever present dust. MO, RA and
VIR are good tracks and I'd imagine if the gate were larger they'd be
much more inclined to make them safer as well as more fan friendly.
Jersey? I have no idea, other than it's in Jersey. The bowls ain't
going anywhere and if I had to guess I think we'll be seeing more of
them, if for no other reason than who owns them. Whether I like it or
not doesn't really matter beyond staying home..

I do not agree..

That they built one? No. That they actually won something? Yes..

Me obsessed? I'm a not so great ex-racer gearhead and as such I pretty
much like things that haulass, don't break too often, and when they do,
don't take a second mortgage to fix, but who makes them I really don't
care and by the way, brand matters to car guys too..

Filler, what a great term for a racer. YO, you three guys, get out
there a and fill those starting boxes, but, but, but Mat doesn't like
us...

When you buy something you invest in it, correct? So why should saying
Zuki' bought the class be considered a slant? That they were able to do
so says a lot about the health and direction of the series, at least to
me..

Dude, you don't know me well enough for that type of lame ass shit, you
see, those fall in the same category with your other swipes at
chicano's, gays and blacks, they may say them, but you can't and damn
sure wouldn't in their presence. That said and besides not being funny,
it didn't bother me at all, in fact I make lite of it all the time, as
I find it puts others at ease, but again, that's just me and I wouldn't
advise that particular attempt at humor with others..

It's there, but evidently you choose not to see it. The Jap's liked
Poracing because they controlled it thru funding the teams, as well as
"guiding" the process overall. Was that a good set-up is the real
question and if recent history says anything, it was not. Now, if I had
the time I could easily find a whole bunch of things thy did that were
very self-serving and destructive to growing the sport, but to what
end? First of all, they're dead and gone, but just importantly in this
case I know full well you either won't consider them, or don't possess
the intelligence to grasp the concept, so why bother?

Oh shit, now I see, they were losing unreal money, ok, now I gotcha'. WOW!

I've heard and believe Proracing lost money every year since Chevy left
and prior to their departure the only real money Proracing made was
about equivelant to their contribution, so, as they say, you do the
math. What has been over-looked and may be of greater interest is who
may have suggested they leave to begin with, do the math on that one
while your at it too..

Whatever and who gives a shit anyway? I'm pretty sure DMG doesn't and I
know I don't..

You pity those who makes their own mind up? What a concept! I pity
those that do not..

Who's cheering? I'm only trying to sweep some of your off the wall
bullshit away, bullshit, by the way, you've piled-up here for quite
some time too..

Ahh, now I see, the reality of Speedway Blvd and demise of Proracing is
your prob, huh? Well Sport, lemme tell you something, business is like
swimming at the beach and if you choose to get out over your head you'd
better be able to handle the sharks.. Ê

I didn't have a dime back then, but you can bet your ass T2(tightwad)
made me earn it..

So you can keep spewing bullshit at will? Not a fuckin' chance!
(Though telling anyone on Usenet to shut-up is very funny!!)

If relation means I seek out thoughts others might have, yes I do,
though I doubt no one here can say that of you..

Movin' on..

Look, if you "just have to" vilify anyone in this deal and I don't know
why anyone without an agenda would need to, the bad guys, or those
culpable are, curiously, the very ones you seem to still find the need
to protect. The Dinger didn't have anything to do with Proracing's
situation at the end, and besides them trying to screw Edmundson and
the resulting financial penalty, him either, though how deeply France
was involved remains (if ever)to be seen. Proracing with a lot of help
from OEM's were the ones who got themselves in the deep end of the pool
with no water wings, The AMA had to let it go and DMG as the new owners
will do as they see fit. It's no different than many other buy-outs,
and for that matter pretty much like a Chettah taking a weakened
antelope, it's sad, but it's a fact of life. Again, it's called reality
and you may want to check it out.

How will they proceed? I don't know for sure, but I do know a little
about what they've done prior and I wouldn't expect them to stray very
far from the Grand Am model. Will it work? How the **** do I know, but
evidently they think so and their track record so far looks pretty
good, though I do believe the economy may make this deal even more
"interesting," to say the least.

Why you need to imply that I like these guys escapes me too, beyond
maybe sharing a flask at a few DT's over the years with Jimbo I
wouldn't know him from Adam, though I do recognize that having a
gazillionaire as a friend might have an up-side and wouldn't mind.
Beyond that I know a couple guys who work for them, so what? If I can
help them I do, just like they help me sometimes and that's all. Nascar
hasn't been my thing since forever and if DMG does as they say and
limit DSB's hp I'm prolly gonna have a prob with that too, but until
they do and I actually have time to see as well as digest it, I'll hold
off an opinion...

The real bottom line, your boi George and his destructive 8 year war on
the middle class(among others) looks to have more impact on my
participation in next years racing than anything DMG may, or may not
do. Again, it's called reality, but then on the other hand, maybe I can
get some of Proracing's unreal money...

 

{Wow, cuttin' all that took almost as long as answering!}

Listen up, for once, okay?
There's no need to argue about Proracing any longer, they're history,
dead, gone, kaput and it's kinda' pointless to argue over a dead
donkey, err, horse, don't you think? You prolly need to get past all
that, 'cause they ain't commin' back! {Accept things you can not
change} Heh, heh though I gotta tell ya' if I had to write their
epitaph it would prolly read, "lasted longer than many thought", or
"resilient mofo's" somewhere in it.. ;-)

As I said a while back, these guys seem to be addressing a lot of the
ills that have burdened M/C racing in this country for a long time and
if it's possible for you to take off your Yosh tinted shades for a
minute you might understand their direction, then again knowing you
loathe any and all things with Daytona in it, maybe not..

They want to change the way the OEM's support the sport, not exclude
them. They say they can sell sponsorship's to out of the industry
concerns too, but only if there's a chance of winning, and these days
unless your name begins with Honsuzkawyamaduc you have absolutely no
chance of winning. So, in order to grow there has to be some chance of
success and that meant the OEM teams *as we know them* gotta' go, you
with me so far? (Think maybe how Ford sponsors John Force in funny car.)

The DSB class looks to be a cross between FX and SSport and at first
glance, what's not to like? The dyno/weight thing I've never been a big
fan of, so I'll just have to wait and see. I understand they're said to
be prepared to throw some substantial purse money at it, and for sure
that won't hurt, so..

I hope we can agree that most all the tracks in this country were *NOT*
built with 200+HP bikes in mind. Taking that a step backwards/further
why should they have been and why should an owner consider spending
good money changing anything? For what? So, Honsuzkawyamaduc can
display their latest and greatest? I dunno fer' sure, but I'm thinkin'
that's prolly not ever gonna happen. So, in order for the tracks to
improve the sport must grow. Hmm, I'm seeing a trend here, you?

The Litre/SB thing I dunno, but it does look like DMG has positioned
themselves so that if it doesn't compare well to DSB they come out
smelling like a rose, but if it does work-out, or pick-up a following
they'll run with it, definitely a win/win thing,(for them) so far..

So, what else is there? Well, I guess besides your overwhelming desire
to keep to keep racing small time that is, what, Spec fuel and tires?
Who really gives a shit? Dunlop will more than likely get Litre's and
whoever has the best deal will get DSB, so what? All this has been done
before and is no great shakes..

Bottom line here for me is that even if all their vision goes to hell
in a hand basket it won't be much different than it is right now and if
they accomplish only half of what they claim M/C racing will be viewed
in a much larger, clearer, though slightly different light, that's why
I'm gonna wait and see. The pitfalls are many, but if the economy goes
totally tits up this whole deal could go south quick, as these guys
have built their vision on being able to supply some out of industry
sponsorship, so again, we'll see..

I could've quoted chapter and verse crap to back up the above, but I
give you credit for knowing a little so I didn't bother, but just don't
think for a second my views, or for that matter DMG's vision, are just
generalities and not thought out, as you might be making the same
mistake some of the OEM's seem to have made recently. Those guys are
prolly a lot of things, but 'necks and crackers aren't any of them...


Back to painting...

 

I thought the general opinion on Barber was that the track is so short that
most bikes rarely get into the higher gears.

 

Ok, but wasn't the lack of long straights one of the reasons that MotoGP
didn't select Barber for a US race? In other words, by making the track
safer for high hp bikes via shorter straights, they've also made it less
desireable as a venue for said bikes, no?

 

Heh, they were and you are, easy.. MN, aka "Sunday Morning"..

Hardly new dood, that your head is so far up Yosh's ass is not only old
news, but just like you, it smells too, but TBH I do wonder, isn't it
dark up there?

Well, if I were you I'd get past it because it isn't going away anytime soon..

DAYTONA SUPERBIKE, DAYTONA SUPERBIKE, DAYTONA SUPERBIKE, that ought to
make your day! (he, heh!)

Where is this "flow of money" you keep talking about? Is it the real
dead president kind, or that un-real stuff that Proracing spent so much
of? I damn sure haven't noticed a bunch of bucks in racing here and I
pay attention to those kinda' things, so where is it and who's packin'
large? Heh, a lot of races I've been to in the last few years look more
like yard sales, or swap meets than any thing else, so where is all
this money you keep talking about and where is it flowing to and if
there is sooo much why did Proracing go belly-up? C'mon your doodness,
tell us, inquiring minds want to know...

You only seem to recall what you need, how un-surprising!

If the truth hurts, oh well..

And obviously little about bikes either..

Please do not..

So, the real prob is that a Jap bike might not dominate? Hmm, now I
see. I see you're full of yamahondakawasuki shit! Though from what I've
heard lately, the so-called Nip OEM block may have developed a crack,
or two, fancy that..
If you want a real discussion about the proposed DSB, I can do that,
but I gotta' tell you, I'm much more focused on how they plan to do
this hp/weight thing than who may, or may not feel screwed because a
Beemer, Duke, or Buell might get in..

The tracks you claim are good for bikes were made for cars, 4 wheeled
things that have a shit load of protection when compared to bikes and
if you think run-off's not a big prob, you're right, it's not. Not
until you need it that is, jeeze!

Again, call up Bill and Melissa and have them build a few, okay? Either
that, or maybe deal with the reality NO ONE is going to and we'll have
to use those concrete abominations somehow. I don't especially like
them and I damn sure didn't help build them, but in lieu of anything
else they are probably going to be used, it's called reality..

Barber was the only track I know of that was built with bikes in mind
and it's lacking a SB straight, though I gotta tell ya' it looks be one
hell of a DAYTONA SUPERBIKE track. Miller's in the middle of the
fuckin' desert and Yam paid to make 'Guna safe for MGP, not AMA. Facing
a very real threat of a rider boycott after Duhamel's crash Panoz
finally did "something" to T12, but you can bet your ass he wouldn't
have unless he felt they were serious. VIR, MO and Elkhart are SPORTS
CAR TRACKS, but given who runs Grand AM that should offer hope,
wouldn't you say? (of course not!)

He said that? I'm suing the bastard!
You dumbass, I said that five years ago..

Who the **** are the fans and where do they figure into DMG's stock
portfolio? I keep saying this, but you just don't get it, they own it
and will do as they see fit, what part of that don't you fuckin'
understand? Without even waiting to see a rule book, much less a race
you're dead set against it and for sure that's your option, but it's
also revealing too and given your self professed love affair with all
things Jap and especially Yosh, one has to consider that you may have
an agenda beyond just "love of the sport," whatever the **** that
means...

My tune hasn't changed one bit, the way WSB did their tire deal was/is
a joke, though arguably it does seem to be working out, but even if you
don't agree, so what? I'd be super surprised if DMG's tire deals
weren't handled much differently.
Impact on tire development? You mean race tire compound development,
correct? I got a news flash for you Bubba, race compounds and street
tires are two very different animals and really only share the fact
that they're round black things, but let's get back to the money part,
okay? Who gets the money, by the way, who puts up purses? Who pays for
tracks and who, pray tell, pays folks to run the races? Oh, and by the
way, I'm pretty sure all those folks like the real kind of money, not
that un-real stuff, thank you very much..

USMC racing at this time is at the end of a dead end street. You say
"real" racing can only happen between OEM's, I say you're full of shit
as a Christmas turkey, most likely Yosh shit too. Now, put that in your
big picture pipe and smoke it!
You wouldn't see a big picture if it ran over your sorry ass.
Oh wait, it is!!!

Another flash Buckwheat, it IS only a national series. It isn't MGP, it
isn't WSB, it isn't in the UK, or Spain, it's here and historically we
have done things a little different. We find ourselves at the end of a
dead end road because we tried to emulate what others have done, well
guess what? That hasn't worked out so well and now it looks like
somebody's got the juice to change it. If I gave advice I'd tell you to
deal with it, or move on because you and your insessant crying aren't
going to change a damn thing..

Oh great, now you'll spew at both ends!

Reality Mark, for this to work they'll have to come up with some
sponsors and for those of us that know a little and actually care,
that's always been the hook in this deal, not the OEM's..

Like you do? Dude, if anyone ever built a house of cards on shakey
ground you have and crying about it now as it's falling down isn't
going to help much, and damn sure doesn't impress me. Heh, heh, Sorry
'bout yer' luk sport model..

Sure they did, they talked the talk and when asked to walk the walk a
couple crawfished big-time and maybe, just maybe, that's exactly what
DMG was counting on all along..(dude, get in the game!)

Hmm, just like the Nip OEM's? How dare they!!!

Not to mention out think you too...


Just for you...
DAYTONA SUPERBIKE, DAYTONA SUPERBIKE, DAYTONA SUPERBIKE!!!

"easy like sunday morning..."

 

The section between 11 and 1 is uphill, inhibiting acceleration, plus turn 1
at Laguna is pretty slight. Do high HP bikes keep the throttle pinned all
the way to turn 2 or do they let off for 1?

One could speculate that the lack of a long straight was a factor there as
well.

That wasn't an issue at Laguna.

I'd agree with you that it was unlikely that Barber intentionally built the
"straightless" track for safety reasons.

"George Barber, the dairy and real estate millionaire who built the Barber
Motorsports Park with $70 million of his own money, is planning to nearly
double the size of his world-renowned motorcycle museum and add a motocross
track."

"Ground for the motocross track already has been roped off in a clearing
overlooking the existing paved course,"

"I want it to be the world's best," Barber said last week. "It can't be
anything less."
"Also under consideration, but far less certain, is a proposal to add more
than a mile to the length of the existing track's straightaway."

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1208679370170710.xml&coll=2

Unless he acquired more land recently, we don't know why he didn't
incorporate this into his original plans.

 

Carl Sundquist notes:

When I was there for a vintage motocross, they ran a cross country
race too. It was a 4-5 mile loop, probably 2 miles square area they
kept it in. All on Barber property. All outside of the roadrace
track
and (third hand info) not in the same area we ran vintage dirt bikes.
That was 2006 so they've owned a lot more land than where the
roadrace track is for a long time.


Go fast. Take chances.
Mike S.