And as the nation sinks beneath the waves ...

Ah, market forces. Football is no different to making money by
trafficking drugs when it comes down to it. Note that I said
*personally*. Selling yourself to the highest bidder has a long
tradition. I certainly moved jobs for more money, generally to a post
that carried more responsibility though, or in a more challenging area
that had to pay more to get anyone at all.

Ok, drop the fervent. Perhaps it's time to nationalise the power
companies again then. As a matter of interest, do EDF have their own
people *in France* to keep the lights on there or do they sub contract
everything?

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

@ps-fisher.demon.co.uk:

So, all we have to do is conquer France, again. Then enslave all of their
turbine engineers. So, getting them to put all their planes on our ship is
all part of the masterplan...

 

Make the most of it. We're both undereducated oiks who've struck lucky
having the right skills at the right time. I'm sure my luck'll run out
at some point, and you'll have retired before the same happens to you.

In the meantime, make hay. Then ferment it and drink it.

 

That would work, we could leave the EC taking them with us, then force
them to drink warm beer and play cricket. Get Wills to change his name
to Henry and Kate to Eleanor and the job's a good 'un.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Don't despair, I'm sure you can retrain when the time comes. Until the
Startrek transporter system becomes a reality we'll always need HGV
drivers.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

I'd expect them to have their own team in France because they've
certainly got one here. I sat in a meeting on Friday and had an EDF
manager spell out to me how they've 're-aligned' certain parts of the
business since the takeover but fortunately for me my company is still
looked on as a long term business partner.

It was the same when it was a nationalised industry and the only thing
that changes is who's the preferred contractor for each supplier.

 

I think we've sat there drinking beer and laughing about this more
than once. I had a lot of years where there wasn't a shortage of
people in my job and employers made the most of it by keeping wages
down and treating men like shit. That situation isn't going to return
in the next 30 years because of the thatcher years when engineering
was hammered and nobody was trained.

Shall I try making sloe gin?

 

She's been gone for twenty fucking years now. Surely someone could
have been trained in that time?

 

They have been. In India, Poland etc. Problem is, those economies have
developed and they need most of their trained engineers themselves and
are paying higher wages to keep them.

We did the same thing with the NHS, poaching doctors from the
Commonwealth in the 50s, 60s & 70s and nurses from S Africa in the 90s.
Major & Blair invested in the NHS training and we are now training too
many nurses & doctors and just like other graduates, they can't all find
jobs once qualified. Although, as the baby boomers retire this situation
may reverse.

Engineering is lagging 10-20 years behind the medical profession. It is
again fashionable and many subjects are over-subscribed in colleges &
universities. Apprenticeships have become fashionable again. However, as
Bonwick says, it will take a generation for those engineers to gain the
experience in sufficient numbers to be working at his level. In the
meantime, because of a lack of investment in training and modernising
the generating infrastructure, we will have to pay very high rates to
attract foreign engineers or persuade the likes of Bonwick not to
retire.

 

Who by?

Pop up to Bedford one day and show me where anyone is training school
leavers in anything to do with engineering because when I left school
you had choice of over 100 apprenticeships to apply for and you'd be
lucky to find 10 now. We can also look at the dates when those
companies that used to train everyone started shedding labour and I
think you'll find the majority went under thatcher or the lame duck
that followed her.

It didn't get any better over the subsequent years because it's easier
to sell used engineering machinery to a developing company and build
houses where the factories used to be than it is to invest in new
equipment and training.

 

You want _more_ money every year?
Is that because you are more productive, have more skills, or just
want to keep up with inflation? I can see the first 2, but if it's the
latter, that's a vicious circle that also demands you take pay cuts
when the cost of living drops.

 

<Note to self: NEVER ask Ogden for drink advice.>

 

No it doesn't. In my chosen career (video editing) I don't have the
luxury of demanding more money as there's always someone younger and
cheaper waiting to take the reins. Does it matter that they take longer
or don't do as good a job. It seems not. Last year I earned less that I
did 15 years ago and that's not counting inflation.

 

You've missed the crucial criterion. Andy has increasingly *scarce*
skills as his peers are retiring or croaking at a faster rate than new
peers emerge.

Less competition & more demand can only mean his wages are likely to
increase in the forseeable future.

 

If my company is charging more for my services then I think I'm
entitled to have a pay rise. If they want to charge more and not share
a part of it with me then I move elsewhere. It's quite simple to get
your head around once you know the rules.

 

Oh I think Andy would like more money every month ;-)

It's because he's one of very few people who know how to hit very big
things with very big hammers in the right way. In other words he's a
scarce resource and no one and no technology is coming along any time
soon to replace him. Therefore he can (almost) charge what he likes in
terms of salary by moving to employers who will pay him his "going
rate".

Nice job if you can get it.

 

It's not always been like this so I intend to make the most of it
while it lasts. I had a chat with our MD this week about certain facts
that I wasn't happy with and managed to walk out with everything I
asked for. I think I went in too low.

 

I'll buy that.

 

I dunno 'bout that. Granted, it takes a bunch of experience to do it,
but I almost went down the road of "field service rep." I decided I
was having more fun in Design. We had a fairly common path for field
service guys. No matter where you started, spending a good deal of
time in Engine Build and then a stint in Test is pretty much de
rigueur. Whenever anyone got tired of the travel requirements and the
strange hours, there was always someone ready to take his place.

 

Whilst I agree with your sentiments, it's a shame that shareholders tend
to disagree.