AMA class structures

I ran across this letter on the AMA BBS the other day, food for thought! I
have no idea who this guy is, though the name sounds vaguely familiar,
whatever. Anyway, he's got some good ideas as far as I'm concerned with a
caveat! In the good 'ol days, it was exponentially cheaper to provide
yourself or your rider with the equiptment to be competitive as the
majority of the venues were dirt tracks. To do that in today's evironment
means a substantial ($) outlay is needed to provide competitve equiptment
and logistics for an AMA season. The teir transfer thing is attractive but I
feel that somehow rules would have to preclude any and all factory
involvement at the novice/ junior level, while at the same time promoting
the sponsorship that would be required. But, ya' know what, isn't that one
of the things AMAProracing is supposed to be doing right now? Anyway, here's
the letter reposted without anyone's permission whatsoever.....
T3

Subject: AMA Superbike format

Now that the season is about over I think some discussion regarding the
success of the format/classes is in order. It was interesting to read Zemke'
s take on what he thought would be some good changes to the way the weekends
and classes are organized to increase the enthusiasm of the fans and create
additional competitiveness within the paddock.

As far as racing goes, AMA Pro Racing has created three very exciting
classes with top riders and excellent competition. Superbike, Superstock and
Supersport have been very competitive and a lot of fun to watch (in person
or on SPEED) this year. Formula Xtreme however has been very disappointing.
The only downside is that not all manufacturers have had riders in each
class; perhaps too much to expect or ask. I have an idea based on Zemke's
comments.

Zemke has looked to the past for some changes. Back in the day, a weekend in
the AMA would have had a Junior class with heats, semi's, and main events
(and in some cases trophy dashes) and and Expert/National Number class with
the same format, in fact, at a local level it would have included a novice
250cc class with the same format (not practical perhaps these days). In some
ways, it was like a double elimination baseball format where the best in
each class would end up in the final for their class. This would produce the
best and hottest racers that weekend battling it out for the big purse. As
nostalgic as I can be about the old AMA days, it doesn't make as much sense
given the new focus on winning on Sunday and selling on Monday. The push to
sell bikes at all levels was not as obvious back then as it is today (or
perhaps I was just too young to realize it)...which is not a bad thing. So a
modification would make sense.

I think earning points to get to the Superbike class, as it used to be to
get a national number, should be reinstated (perhaps with modifications).
This would keep up-and-coming talented younger riders, and solid journeyman
riders, in the support classes. This would allow the factories and
individual privateer teams/riders, to promote the best riders to the senior
class (Superbike), a privilege based on merit and not so much on the whims,
which are generally based on promise and at times results, of the factory.

I believe that it would keep the interest of all factory teams to keep
riders in the senior class (all factories represented) and provide support
at the support levels, as they try to develop talent to get to the premier
class (creating future champions), thus creating interest at the support
class level. It would also put the very best racers in direct competition
with each other in Superbike and create more privateer and factory support
competition, as teams promote more junior riders and their teams. Bragging
rights can still be held by the best run factory team but also allow the
best privateers to compete at the level they wish (the big difference here
is the privateer would have to prove themselves over a period of time with
points enough to get in the game, some combination of AMA event results and
local events).

It also would still create a scenario where the 600 or 1000 support classes
would still be ridden by top local, national up-and-comer privateers, and
factory teams to create the kind of marketing the factory teams desire, and
good racing.

To me, this would create a merit system, that would create more interest,
better racing, more factory support at the lower levels, more support at the
premier level and give the privateers a chance to win races. Kudos to Jake
for initiating these ideas!
- Jack Arney, Belmont, CA

 

Stuck with it then.

This is such a load of bollocks. 5 months isn't long enough to build a
race bike and team? Are they working 35 hour weeks with no overtime?

Or the AMA for creating the environment that led to their decisions?

Or the AMA? I take it then that road race managers don't speak their
mind in the USA and are generally muzzled by their PR department. How
bizarre.

Or the third. Swallow their pride and change the rules again.

Maybe the lack of factory support for FX is because the factories don't
want this to happen.

Isn't it the AMA's job to work with the teams to put on the best
entertainment they can? Or do they think they're actually in the
business of directing worldwide product development? If what they're
trying to do is to create a 600cc Superbike class then that's an
interesting experiment but they need to be damn careful they don't kill
the whole game in the process.

 

I'd really like to read the article on Cycle News but I can't see it on
their website. URL?

You know what I'm going to say. My position is the same as your report
of what Carruthers said in the article. 2 1000 and 2 600 classes with
not enough differentiation between them is silly. The AMA have created
this and the factories have chosen to exploit it. How can you blame
Yamaha and Kawasaki for doing this in the 1000s and Honda for doing it
in the 600s? They didn't set up the championship structure. They're just
exploiting the classes available.

3 major classes makes sense to me.
- 1000 SB. More or less as it is now. Give the private teams something
to race for by having their own cup. You get to nominate whether you're
racing for the big prize or the secondary cup but not both.

- 1000 SuperStock. Virtually stock on DOT tyres. Aimed at up and coming
riders. SB teams excluded. For privateers you get to choose. Run a stock
bike in 1000SS or spend money on tuning and run at the back in 1000SB
but not both with the same bike.

- 600 SS. But with more or less WSB or BSB SS rules. Enough tuning to
level the playing field. Enough restriction to keep costs under control.
Making the restrictions so tight that the biggest selling 600 sport bike
(Honda) can't be competitive makes no sense. Running it to SB levels of
tuning and expense also makes no sense.

3 races in one day isn't enough. So run two SB races because that's what
the fans really want to see. Run a one make series or something like it
for teenagers, to provide somewhere for 16,17,18 year old riders to
shine and get seen.

And you're going to tell me that the factories won't go for this, the
privateers won't be able to afford it and it wouldn't work in the USA
for any number of reasons that I don't really get. And that all I'm
doing is repeating what's in BSB. Which is right. Because it works.

I can't help thinking that Daytona is now an irrelevance in the same way
that the IoM or NW200 is an irrelevance. That doesn't mean people
shouldn't race there, but it shouldn't be a points scoring round of a
major championship.

 

I have seen it. I was unimpressed.

 

Then you're blind.
http://www.mst-group.co.uk/combqual.asp?table=43304qucspt&round=round10.g
if

Karl Harris is leading the championship on a factory Honda 600 run by
the same HM Plant HRC team fielding Rutter and Kyonari. Jay Vincent has
won races this year on a Padgetts entered Honda 600 as well and is
third. Leon Camier was on pole on a Padgetts CBR600. In WSS600, Karl
Muggeridge is leading the championship on a Ten Kate CBR600 with Broc
Parkes 3rd on the same.

Now in both BSB SS600 and WSB WSS600 it's *Supersports* not Superstock.
There's a fair bit of tuning allowed of both chassis and engine though
much less than WSB. It includes alternate gearboxes and cams with stock
lift. You can find the world regs here.
http://www.fim.ch/en/default.asp?item=26# Minimum weights are 600-4
162Kg and 750-2 170Kg. The end result is that Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha are
all competitive every year, with Kawasaki and Ducati competitive some
times.

Exactly. 2 1000cc formula on slicks and 2 600 formula one with some
limited tuning and one with none is all too same, same. Either full on
SB1000+Stock1000+Limited tuning 600 or full on SB600, Stock600 and
Stock1000 might work better. Or even SB1000, SB600 and Stock600 Or some
other variation. The key I think is one Premier championship, One Junior
championship and one Privateer only championship. Plus support races so
there's not too much time during the day(s) when nothing's happening.

Factory, Shmactory. It just plain doesn't matter whether the teams are
factory run, supported or it's just lip service as long as there's
enough of them that are competitive. Like you say, Rizla, Monstermob,
Virgin, Hawk, Attack, TenKate, Belgarda, Austin, Corona are all out
there because they love racing. They all get bits and pieces and support
from the factories to a greater or lesser extent. The factories exploit
the results regardless to try and sell more motorcycles. Hence the
Kawasaki importers were running full page ads on the back of Hawk's
first win even though Kawasaki, the factory, didn't contribute much of
anything to it.

Damned if I know why any factory goes racing. But I feel sure that at
least part of the reason the teams exist is because the people involved
love racing.

Oh good grief. I know Daytona isn't a road race. I've been there and
although I saw a lot of strange stuff, I didn't see any manhole covers
on the racing line.

Quite. And then the safety of the circuit can be judged against all the
other circuits and not treated with kid gloves because it's *Daytona*.

 

I misread this and thought you were talking about 600

No it's because the 'Blade is (arguably) a better road bike, but the
Suzuki, Yamaha and Kawasaki are better race bikes, when you're not
allowed to change anything. As I've said before, I consider this an
argument for allowing enough tuning to level the field but limiting it
to keep costs under control. But in both BSB and WSB, Superstock is an
entry level, minor championship so maybe the fact that previous years
have been a Suzuki benefit and this year Honda is left out doesn't
matter that much. Just look at the world TV coverage. WSB gets loads,
Supersports 600 gets shown sometimes. Superstock hardly ever gets shown.
So if there is one, minor, entry level race for virtually stock bikes
it's not a big problem if one of the factories can't compete. But when
we're talking about the main supporting act to the big feature I think
it does matter.

Back Atcha. In AMA Superstock 1000 I see one Honda. And it seems to be
in 2nd in the championship. Can you explain how they've managed this
when nobody can manage it in WSB or BSB Superstock1000?

Just so we're all talking about the same thing.

SB1000 - AMA = WSB = BSB. The rules are all pretty much the same. There
are some small detail differences but it's not hard for wild cards to
run the same bike in all three. The one big exception of course is that
WSB uses Pirellis.

Superstock 1000 - AMA = WSB = BSB except that the AMA allows slicks
while the other two are "road" tyres.

WSS600 WSB = BSB ~ FX The engine specs of FX are almost the same but
more changes are allowed to chassis and suspension. FX allows slicks
while WSB and BSB require "road" tyres.

SS600. AMA only. There's no equivalent in WSB or BSB.

See above. Because it's an entry level, junior championship.

Re Daytona

What doesn't fit is an endurance race with pitstops, tyre changes and
fuel stops in a sprint race championship. It would be like including the
Imola 200 in WSB when it's rightly in the World Endurance championship.

Since nobody goes to the races at Daytona, it really doesn't matter what
they run (I jest!). If they run a normal AMA weekend with all the normal
AMA classes, then we're still left with tyre, speed, banking, runoff,
worries. They're proposing cutting out one bit of banking but they've
still left from the chicane to turn 1. Will Dunlop be able to make a
safe tyre that lasts a normal AMA SB race?

 

That whole para was about 1000s. Now you're talking about 600s again.
Which is it?

It's not about problems that get solved. It's about how the tuned bike
comes out.

WTF is a Factory Stock bike? And why is it better than a Private Stock
bike? And what's wrong with the CBR1000 that it's not competitive as a
track back? You're just saying exactly the same thing I did. The R1,
GSXR1000 and ZX10R are better track bikes in stock trim.

What I said.

"At most"? WTF? No WSS is an FX motor in a rolling chassis that allows
less work than FX but more work than AMA 600SS. But that's to describe
it the wrong way round. It should be "FX is WSS with more chassis work
allowed". While AMA 600SS is WSB Superstock with a 600cc limit.

Of course they are. Because the "AMA has the best bikes, riders, teams,
series in the world". But then you would say that.

Not necessarily. If you're ever going to win at the big time, you need
setup skills. Which means 250GP. You need to learn how to eek out the
10ths of a second which means 125GP or SoS. And you need to learn to
handle a machine with *TOO MUCH POWER* which means a 1000 on road tyres
and stock suspension. So since the first two are out you're left with
the last.

I started to explain it all in detail *again*, but you know what? I
can't be bothered.

It all boils down to this. The AMA has created a situation where:-
- There are 2 1000cc formula. The factories are split across them. The
bikes look and sound the same. They turn nearly the same lap times.
- There are 2 600cc formula. The factories are split across them. The
winning bikes look and sound the same.
- In all 4 formulae, big spending factory or importer teams are the only
ones to win races; often a lap ahead of everybody else; but spread thin
across the competing formulae; which means the grid is filled with
private teams who haven't got a chance; that the top riders moan about
and have to lap.
- Which all means that in any one race there's not enough bikes up at
the sharp end.
- And unfortunately, the premier class is dominated by an arrogant rider
who's not very media friendly and really ought to be racing at world
level.
- It may all make sense to racing anoraks and real fans. But it gets
hard to explain to the public. Which makes it hard to sell to
non-motorcycling sources of finance or media. Which means it's never
going to attract new fans. Which means it's stuck in it's own little
world.

 

Provincial! This is a world newsgroup. All we ever hear about is the
provincial AMA. It produces unbalance in the Force.

 

Just to totally change the topic. One of the deals with the R6 cup is
that the winner gets a tryout and probably a ride with the Virgin Yamaha
SB team. Last year's R6 winner was Tommy Hill and this year he's part of
the team. He's 3rd on the grid for tomorrow's Cadwell Park races ahead
of Reynolds, Kagayama and Haydon. This season he's frequently finished
in front of Gary Mason and Steve Plater. A great example of bringing on
a young rider via a one make championship as part of a national meeting.

Also really good to see Smart on pole on the Kawasaki, 0.4s up on
Rutter. Smart was expecting to do well as the Kawasaki is nimble,
Cadwell's tight and there's nowhere for big horsepower to win out. Note
also that the first 5 riders are on the 5 manufacturer's bikes. Smart is
well on the way to getting 3rd in the championship which is a tremendous
achievement given that they started work on the bike around the 1st of
the year.

 

They also get to meet Rossi and have a double race at the MotoGP with an
R6 as the prize...
http://www.yamaha-racing.com/supersport/headline.asp?PressID=976

And look. It's happening in Germany as well.
http://www.yamaha-racing.com/supersport/headline.asp?PressID=929

"The German R6 Cup is one of many R6 Cups currently taking place around
Europe. The German distributor has a long reputation of running one-make
series stretching back to 1978’s RD350 championship, which was won by
a then future Grand Prix 250 star Martin Wimmer. The alumni of the
series reads like a who’s who of German racing and among those who
went on to greater things were 1993 125cc Grand Prix world champion Dirk
Raudies, 2000 supersport world champion Jörg Teuchert and multiple
national champion Udo Mark. Current Yamaha Motor Germany European
superstock racer Kenan Sofuoglu won the 2002 German R6 Cup and is hoping
to carry on in the wheeltracks of those great riders."

And Italy
http://www.motorbox.com/archivio/8/546/

And Belgium
http://217.22.58.181/home_nl.asp

Virgin Yamaha started the season with Steve Plater and Gary Mason in the
in the main team and Tommy Hill in the same garage. Plater busted
himself up so they drafted in James Haydon. Haydon won a race so when
Plater returned they kept them both on. Just build another bike and go
racing. McElnea has said that the team all tightened their belts and put
some of the reserves in because they all wanted to do it.

Now compared with the USA, travel costs are obviously less. And the
riders probably get less money. And we do have series coverage on BBC
all be it a week late. With Sky Sports covering it live on satellite for
the whole of Europe. Which means non-motorcycling sponsors are probably
easier to come by. But it is a very professional series that is fiercely
competitive. And it's close to Europe which is why it's launched
Gardner, Bayliss, Hodgeson, Vermeulen, Muggeridge, Toseland, Walker,
Shakey into World championships. And why Dorna are courting them to
potentially displace Flammini. And why a stream of Aussies like Coxhell
and Richards choose to come half way round the world after winning their
local championships.

Meanwhile,
Cadwell Race 1. Dry. Rutter wins from Kyonari and Kagayama. Yukio gets
fastest lap. Reynolds falls off. Smart finishes dead last (don't know
why yet). All 5 manufacturers in the first 7, covered by 12 secs
Cadwell Race 2. Wet. Kagayama from Smart and Emmett. Yukio gets fastest
lap. Reynolds 6th, Rutter falls off.

So Rutter claws back more points from Reynolds and is now 34 points
behind with 4 races left. And Kagayama closes to 6 points behind Smart
for 4th and 3rd.

This circuit tried to kill Kagayama last year so all the interviewers
ask him how he feels about coming back. "The English have this word
'fear'. I don't know what it means". What a star.

 

We got there at sunset and I wasn't at the champions day on Thursday so
I missed that the R6 cup was there. (must pay more attention)

Or Irish Road racing.