All Sabine wants for Xmas...

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one (and that includes
Lozzo, too).

I'm not confident any of my policies cover me - I'd certainly ask the
question before doing it - and fully expect them to tell me to sod off.

 

No, I'm saying your interpretation of it may well disagree with that of
their solicitors and, indeed, the judge.

I'd want it in writing that they specifically will cover me.

 

The decision that the Nurburgring falls within the definition of
"prepared course" seems to me to set a clear precedent.

Whereas I can't. My full policy from Direct Choice lists six
exclusions under the heading "Rallies, competitions, trials and track
use". The last one is "on a prepared course".

 

I take your point. IANAL but I think there is scope for the decision to be
challenged. All other countries in the pan-European insurance cabal
recognise the 'ring as a public road and UK insurers should be forced to
toe the line.

See the link in my other post - my underwriter does not mention prepared
course in their T&Cs. DC is a broker; who underwrites your policy? Did they
give you the option of reading the policy in full before committing
yourself? I've taken to only insuring my vehicles & home with companies who
have the full wording on their website: there are far too many
inconsistencies for my liking.

 

The same sort of bods who'll happily tell you that fitting winter
tyres invalidates your insurance. The same, of course, apples to
non-OEM brake pads, heated grips, etc.

 

Should have insured with Aviva - no such exclusion there.

 

Perhaps so - but if I wanted to challenge it I wouldn't wait until my
insco's line-up of QCs and I were arguing over who should pay the £Xm
damages claimed by a crippled teenage biker who collided with me on
the Ring.

Royal & Sun Alliance.

Interestingly enough it took me several attempts to get hold of a copy
of RSA's full policy document. DC kept sending me yet another copy of
their normal insurance policy pack, which includes only the briefest
insurance summary.

 

Well it was cheap. TBH cover for the Ring never occurred to me, as I
have no intention of taking a bike round.

 

By that token, you would not be insured to ride on the Isle of Man TT
circuit, nor the stretch of publc road that forms the Mulsanne straight
at Le Mans, nor the public road that is the Chimay circuit, nor the
Monaco circuit, etc etc etc.

How do you define 'prepared course'? It's a public highway. You're
insured on it. If any insurance company tried that one on me, after the
event, I'd willingly see them in court.

 

It would be better to ask before the event, as it appears *some*
insurers are equating 'track day' with any driving on a 'race track'.

Could be very expensive trying to prove that the 'ring isn't a 'race
track'.

 

It's a public toll road, made obvious by the fact that you need third
party liability insurance to ride on it. You don't need insurance to
ride on race tracks.

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

They've been alright in the past. CNash use them, or did before Groupama
came along. I had to switch to them when I went to Croatia in 2003 as they
were one of the first to include it in the territorial limits. Most
companies do now, as Croatia is in the "EU & Friends" insurance club now.

Poor show. They always come near the cheapest on the screen scrapers[1] but
I've never gone with them. Probably because of a lack of transparency with
documentation.

[1] is it me or are these things, like go compare, confused etc becoming a
waste fo time. Just renewed my car insurance and none of the quotes were
accurate when I actually went to the insurer's website. Either they got my
car model wrong from the reg. no. database (VTR instead of VTS) or the
addons were not as priced, usually being described as included which was
untrue.

 

I don't, but it seems at least one British judge has defined it to
include the Ring.

I'm not disagreeing with your poiont of view - I'd still happily ride
on all the other sections you mention.

 

Interpretation is key here. How is the judge going to see it?

The insurance industry are of the opinion that it's a race track.

The ombudsman appears to agree.

European law means your insurers are very likely to pay out if you make
a claim - but also very likely to come chasing you for the money.

There are many debates about this on web forums - all of which have one
thing in common - all those who say 'I can't see anything in my policy
to exclude it', will not call their underwriter in advance for written
confirmation they're covered - because they know what the answer is
likely to be.

The only way to do the 'Ring is to consider yourself uninsured and be
prepared for a long fight if there is an incident - and an incident may
be something as minor as dropping fluids on which someone else has an
accident.

 

it wasn't a judge but an ombudsman

"Consumers don’t have to accept any decision we make. They are always free
to go to court instead. But if they do accept an ombudsman's decision, it
is binding both on them and on the business."

and according to http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/nurburgring_insurance.html
the case is subject to an appeal in the European Court

 

Interesting.

 

There's always personal bankruptcy, and I'd be prepared to do that as a
way of telling them to go **** themselves.

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

Could it not get awkward on some of the hill climb courses? Apart from
those on Pahnd Island several are on 'private' roads that are
temporarily closed for the event. Any punter can drive or ride up the
Hartland Quay course between the timed runs to get to and from the pub
(at which point they are open to the public). If they mow down a
pedestrian would they be not covered by their third part insurance
because the are on a prepared course (straw bales etc.). Prescott is the
access to more than one house IIRC. I *think* Olivers Mount is generally
open to the public when no racing is going on.

I suppose the answer is that no-one ever has - yet.

Surely use on a prepared course implies use for other than merely
getting from A to B? That's a tricky one as regards the Ring and I can
see why it might be treated differently as a result,

As I have mentioned before, a lot of French bike insurance does give
*just* responsibilite civile cover for track day use (as long as not
timed). I wonder how they treat the ring. It might be interesting to get
a quote from Gras Savoye for Ring RC cover, but perhaps they only cover
French circuits (as they did for me when doing Mas de Clos and Charade).


--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

If you trust the information in some of the URLs bandied about, all other
signatories to the European insurance agreement accept TP liability on the
'ring due to its status as a public road.

 

That wouldn't surprise me. Reading the leeds-solicitors blurb though it
appears that UK insurers agree that they have to pay out to a 3rd party
(they have no other legal option) but some are trying to reserve the
right to recover the costs as the insured was in breach of the policy
terms.

"The insurer agreed to meet any third party liabilities but this did not
mean that the driver was driving within the terms and conditions of his
policy."

A similar can of worms to the ploughing your vehicle with undeclared
modifications in to a bus queue scenario. They have to pay out, but they
*may* come after you to recover the loss because the terms of the policy
were breached.

The decision of the European Court of Justice will make interesting
reading.



--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+