All Sabine wants for Xmas...

Simple ain't it? Don't fucking crash.

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

I assume you're not bothering with car or bike insurance this year,
then? - because you don't plan on crashing?

It's a public road - you need insurance - and I've read stuff about the
German plod getting quite keen on seeing proof you have it these days,
too - they certainly want to see proof if you do have a prang, even if
it's not your fault.

I'm perfectly happy to do track days with no insurance, but the Ring,
where you have a mixture of road cars, track cars, camper vans, tourist
coaches and motorbikes all out at the same time is a very different
proposition.

 

It's not even down to what's out there though, is it?

It's the liability aspect which is the main reason that sets
Nurburgring apart from other trackdays.

'It's a trackday, I'm therefore not insured and have no need to be.'

'It's a public road, therefore you're liable for the damage caused by
you to property other than your own... including any roadside
furniture you happen to twat'.

 

No, but it does tend to focus your mind.

Yes - my biggest worry would be the bill for twatting someone else,
though. A personal loan would cover the bill from the 'Ring, but I'm not
sure even a re-mortgage would cover the bill for permanently disabling
or killing another driver / rider.

 

Really?

For me, only in as much as I need to be aware there are likely to be
more loonies than usual beating the shit out of their chosen method of
transport in the same vicinity as me than usual, discounting BOTAFOTs
and the like. ;-)

Everything else, as in the slower stuff you've reeled off above, treat
as usual... with the added advantage all of it is going the same
direction as you are.

 

Of course I'll have insurance, don't be such a ****. Having insurance
in place just to ride on the Ring is a different matter. I can't see
anything anywhere on my insurance documents that says I'm not insured
while riding on any specified piece of public road in Europe, and that
includes the Ring. In other words, if not specified as being excluded,
I am insured.

You've read stuff, but have no actual proof or know anyone who this has
personally happened to.

I think you worry about what amounts to three parts of **** all just
for the sake of it. It's no worse than doing a ride-out with ukrm, but
then you'd have to actually dig a bike out of the garage and try to get
it started for that to happen.

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

Well, you're not.

No, I haven't - plenty of stuff around the 'net - Ring insurance is a
hot topic, as you can no longer get it from UK insurers.

It's like doing a UKRM rideout without insurance.

My riding habits have **** all to do with this discussion - but I've
ridden more than once this month, despite the snow.

 

Really? You've read my policy documents from front to back? I don't
think you have but I certainly have, because I was thinking of going
there when I was travelling across Europe this summer. Maybe some of
the pikier insurance companies specifically exclude it, but mine don't.

The ring is a public toll road in Germany. My insurance does not
specify anywhere that my insurance is void if I ride on the Ring or any
other toll roads. If they don't specify it, then they do not exclude
it, therefore I am insured.

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

Phone them up and ask. That will fully clarify it. To the extent they
say 'no, we don't cover the 'Ring'.

It comes under the exclusion for 'prepared course' if they don't
specifically mention it.

It's probably better to get this clarified before you need to argue the
point, though.

'In August 2010 the Financial Ombudsman Service made a final decision
regarding a case concerning the Nurburgring Nordschleife. The Ombudsman
ruled that the Nordschleife is a one way toll circuit with all the
characteristics of a 'prepared course'. The insured's policy excluded
use on a 'prepared course'. This sort of exclusion was held to be
neither unfair or unreasonable given the increased risks associated with
driving in such places.'

 

(SteveH) wrote in

That judgement refers to a *specific* insurance contract and the wording of
that policy is not generic.

I'm with Lozzo. Everything I read in the C Nash booklet makes me confident
that I have third party liability on the 'ring. They even mention "toll
roads with no upper speed limit" within the definition of "race tracks".
Cover does not apply if "racing, speed trials, rallies, pacemaking or track
days is taking place at the time."

So, as far as I am concerned I can ride the R-GS on the 'ring on a public
day where I pay a toll and ride my own ride. I can also ride the Monaco GP
circuit at a time when it is a "prepared course" but open to the public.

 

There is also the Isle of Man prepared course when the roads are open.

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

and here's my shiny new car policy from Tesco.
http://www.tescofinance.com/personal/finance/insurance/carins/pdf/all-car-policy-document.pdf

No mention of "prepared course", only the ususal "race, rally,
competition or trial" clause.

So, there you go Steve. Point out to me which part of my insurance
contract excludes me from having TP cover for the 'ring.

 

The same arguement can be used for the mountain circuit over TT or MGP
fortnights when it's pretty obvious it's a prepared course because
it's got straw bales and circuit markers all over the place.

 

Very true - but most insurance policies state something along the lines
of 'prepared course' - and this is the clause which excludes the 'Ring.

Your bike, your risk.

Easy way to solve it - call your insurance company and ask the question.
I am very confident they'll tell you you're not covered.

Of course, if you're not confident to call them and ask, there can only
be one reason why - and as I've said, it's probably better to have 100%
clarity before the event and not when they're persuing you for a 3rd
party claim.

I subscribe to 'Track Driver' magazine, and their article on this can be
found online:

http://www.trackdriver.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=
79&Itemid=14

 

That isn't the full list of exclusions and endorsements - you need to
check the schedule and certificate for other exclusions - as they say in
the policy.

If you're confident of success, then call and ask them - I suspect they
may use 'trial' as the getout in this case, if there's nothing on the
certificate.

 

I checked my policy, schedule and certificate. Nowhere does it exclude
the Ring, or the IoM, or Monaco, or any other road based race circuit
or toll road when used as a normal road.

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

*shrugs*

Your bike / car - your risk.

All the advice out there is 'don't do it'. That's good enough for me -
as I don't have the financial clout to take on my insurers should things
go wrong.

However, as I've already posted - the simple answer is to call and ask
the question. If you don't want to do that, then it shows doubt that
you'd get away with it.

 

(SteveH) wrote in

it's hardly conclusive is it - "some insurers" without actually naming any.
Are there 2, 22 or 222?

 

It;s a bit like saying "I might fall off if I ride my bike, so I'm not
going to"

--
Lozzo
Versys 650 Inter-Continental Hyperbolistic Missile , CBR600F-W racebike
in the making, TS250C, RD400F (somewhere)
BMW E46 318iSE (it's a car, not one of those 2-wheeled pieces of shite
they churn out)

 

(SteveH) wrote in :

I'm confident that if I phone the Tesco or CNash call centre I won't be
able to speak to anyone with the necessary skills to interpret the policy
documentation. My experience of such places are that they say the 1st thing
that appears on the screen which may or may not be relevant. I've had
similar experiences discussing contracts with mobile phone operators and
ISPs: few seem to understand their own T&Cs, especially when you are
terminating the contract.

I am confident in my own ability to read contracts I enter into and
understand the terms & conditions without imagineering ways that an
underwriter might redefine the English language. You seem to be suggesting
otherwise which I find quite insulting.