about helmets

Went to a motorbike shop today to look at some helmets (I should
really get the bike first....but we won't go there....).
The bike shops cheapest helment was around $100 and the most expensive
was $700...which begs the question..why the big difference and which
one should I go for?

I don't know what I'm looking at when buying helments because they all
look the same to me?

Maybe I'm a little new to this motorbike business, but ifs a $100
helment does the job, then why would you spent $600?

I'm not trying to be a smartase over this, I jiust need some help?
(also what brands are good/bad)

Thanks
Andrew (who needs a hand to talk his wife around to the fact that I
NEED a motorbike....)

 

Morphet is of the opinion:

The cheap end of the market:

* Just covers the safety standard (no /extra/ protection);

* Tend to be poorer fits;

* Are noisier (a *lot* frigging noisier);

* Are heavier; and

* Tend to look ugly.

The top-end is usually the other way around:

* safer (made from more space-age materials, so they're stronger);

* Made to mould to the head better;

* Quieter (but earplugs are still useful at speed);

* Made from space-age materials, so are usually lighter;

* Styling is direct from Milan <grin>

There's also often better air circulation and other benefits (like better
anti-fog air circulation) in the top-end ones.

You're also paying something for the brand name, and also for "race replica"
paint jobs.

As a learner, you probably won't want to spend quite so much money on your
first helmet - you're not quite sure what you want, and you aren't likely to
need high-speed protection and noise reduction.

Pick up your average cheap-ass helmet, and put it on (make sure it's the
right size - tight but not painful). Swing your head around a bit (look
left, look right). Notice how your neck has to really work to make the
helmet go where you want it to go.

Now, get a nice top-end lid and put it on. It's probably going to be a lot
lighter, and "cushier" inside. Note also that, if you buy it, your wallet
will be a lot lighter too!

If you want the best, you'll pay for it. If you're riding a lot, a top lid
will be worth it. When learning, I don't think it's so critical.

I really liked my HJC CL-12. It's successor (CL-14) will, presumably, be a
similarly comfortable helmet, pretty quiet, for sub-$300 in plain colours.
I've heard that the AC-10 (also by HJC) was a *very* quiet helmet, so it's
successor will possibly be similarly nice.

My first helmet was a bottom-of-the-line AGV, which suited my purposes, and

Not sure how to do that, never had to. I was riding before I met my better
half, and now I'm pretty sure I'll never have to defend myself - she's
eyeing off a ZZR-600 for herself at the moment. <g>

- Matt
GT-750 and proud!

 

Hi Andrew,

There is an old saying in motorcycling which goes, "If you've got a $10-00
head, buy a $10-00 helmet". The basic difference between cheap and
expensive helmets is cheap ones are made of polycarbonate while the
expensive ones are made of a variety of composite materials such as
fibreglass, Kevlar or carbon fibre. Stay away from $100-00 polycarbonate
ones. Fibreglass ones offer much better protection for a mid price range but
are heavy while Kevlar ones etc afford great protection, are a little
lighter and much more expensive.

Oh and it seems that if you want some special artwork on your lid, it will
cost you $200-$300 more for the same helmet over a plain colour. I only
ever buy Shoei or Arai (there are other good brands around but I haven't
tried them). My current lid is a plain gloss black Shoei RF-800 which cost
me around $400. Same helmet would have cost me $700 for some fancy pants
artwork. It's fibreglass and a little on the heavy side for long rides on a
sports bike.

At the end of the day, don't skimp out on a helmet as this thing may save
your life. Buy the same token, there is no need to spend extra on a paint
job as paint will make no difference as to whether you live or die.

Regards,

Mark.

P.S. I also have a fancy pants Arai with a Doohan paint job because it looks
good

 

My helmet sells for around $1100/1200 and it's worth every penny.

Aaron
ZX6R

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:49:24 +1000

You can tell how old it is from the prices.

Lids have changed a lot in 40 years.

The bod who does the testing at the RTA has tested every model of helmet
available on the market. He says that the difference in test results is
minimal. That is, the expensive ones don't pass the tests any better,
are not less damaged, don't exhibit different responses, from the
expensive ones.

(The fibreglass/poly thing was true 20 years ago when I first got into
bikes, my cheap lid is fibreglass, some expensive ones are plastic)

What you get for your money from an expensive lid is better quality
fittings, and *possibly* some better protection in certain kinds of crash,
but it there is no way to *know*. They don't do any better on the tests
used in Oz, some do better on other tests, but there's reason to believe
that doing better on some tests means you do worse on others.

The cheap lids have packing that packs down quicker, straps that fray
faster, Paint that looks ratty more quickly, visors that don't fit as
flush or tightly and work loose more quickly, visors not as high quality
(but check replacement costs, they can be all over the place), fewer
vents and fancy features.

If you buy an expensive lid, you are more likely to keep it for a long
time, as not only is the financial hit high, but the thing keeps nice
for longer, so you don't get a reminder to change it. Whereas a cheap
lid is more likely to get replaced in a couple of years.

No one really knows how many hours of wear a given lid can take before
it needs replacing. Manufacturers (who have a vested interest in you
buying more lids...) tend to say every 2 years, but that's silly, it's
got to be time on head, not time on shelf that makes the difference.

I'd recommend that a new rider should buy a cheap helmet. Seems silly
to spend heaps of money on a thing you may realistically give away in a
short time (around 30% of novice riders give up within a year apparently)
and more importantly your don't know enough yet to pick the right lid.
Your knowledge of what fits, and what's important to you in the way of
fittings is limited, a year of riding will make you much better equipped
to know what you want. YOu'd be very annoyed if you bought a $700 lid
and in 3 months found it gave you a neckache and whistled horribly with
your bike...

Spend $150 on a helmet and $400 on riding courses, That's a far better
investment than spending $550 on a helmet. Not crashing is the ideal,
concentrate on that.

Zebee

 

I'm pretty sure polycarbonate was invented sometime after October 4, 1957. ;-)


BTH

 

[...]

That's very sound advice, I reckon - bloody good argument.

Everyone should go with it.

The cheap helmet will also work as a base for deciding upon a more expensive
helmet later, i.e. it'll be easier to make the right decision.

j

 

I beg to differ from most replies so far (except Zeebee's).
The "$10 head in a $10 lid" is plain BS.
No study has yet proven that polycarb helmets are inferior to laminated
ones.
Some polys even have Snell approval (Snell= certain testing standard), like
the Laser helmets.
More $$ usually means better materials and finish, which equals better
comfort/ longer life.
The rest of the $$ go into fashion and "what's hot at the moment" (various
replica paint jobs etc.)
ALL helmets are made for the world markets and have to comply with various
standards in order to be sold in all those countries.
Wear and tear of helmets mainly consists of deterioration of liners/straps/
soft-foams.
The styrofoam universally used as inner-shell doesn't "wear" (only if
exposed to prolonged UV) or pack, it's the softer foams only that give up
sooner/later.
(most of those are various-grade PU foams, as used in sofa-cushions/
car-bike-seats etc, comes in various grades and densities, cost is according
to density/ weight per ccm).
As a rule, I tend to stay away from the real cheapies and start looking at
the above $200 mark.
HJC is nowadays owned by Shoei and produces decent stuff in the
mid-price-range.
The recent influx of "cheap" Korean/Taiwanese/ whatever names like THH/ARC/
others is rather a by-product of the fact that plastics-production is
environmentally "heavy" (and therefore increasingly expensive in the
developed countries), resulting in manufacturing of "brand" names in the
"don't give-a-f%ck" emerging Asian countries like Taiwan/Korea/Vietnam etc.
Stands to reason then that those well-established names buy into locally
existant companies, then using their established marketing structures to
"create el-cheapo" brands to snatch part of the low-price-bracket, giving
them a piece of the top-and-bottom-end-market-pie.
Who knows who-owns-whom, but looking at overseas markets and their
saturation with an endless number of brands (which we'll never see due to
the small size of the AUS market), it would be economically non-viable for
all those to be individual companies flogging their own product.

Conclusion:
Buy something not too expensive, PolyCarbonate is fine and can take more
knocks than composites due to it's more "elastic" nature.
If you got the dough to spent, buy whatever you like.
From a safety aspect it's all pretty much the same (regarding impacts etc.)
Then again, comfort and low noise are part of safety as well...
cheers
pete

 

In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:13:44 +1000

And vice versa.

But who has a better record in preventing head injury? I don't know, I
don't know anyone does.

I haven't found that lightness is a function of expense. I've found
light and heavy in both cheap and expensive helmets.

I have also found that helmets now are all lighter than they were when I
started riding.

Exactly. And the cheap ones are using the same polymers and even
tooling - THF is Shoei tooling and recipes in Korea.

It is? I've had cheap and I've had expensive, and I haven't found that
cheap is more uncomfortable if it fits well.

I have had expensive lids that were both uncomfortable and painful.

But you don't *know* that it will make a difference.

No lid will protect over 20kmh head-to-hard impact.

A very expensive one may or may not make a difference, I bet you can't
find any objective information on that. As in studies that are not
manufacturer funded.

What protection are you buying? That the $150 lid that fits well will
somehow give you *measurably* less protection than a $700 lid ditto?

I don't believe it to be so, the guy who tests lids doesn't believe it
to be so, and I've not been able to find any research that says it is
so. If you've got it, I'd be very interested.

I think the expense is a psychological protection. It costs more, it
has to be better, so you feel safer.



Zebee

 

"James Mayfield" wrote

Whoosh!

I'll sell you my open face Nolan for $1500. Gotta be the best at that
price. If you want to pay more, I can do that too.

Theo

 

"James Mayfield" wrote

What do you mean "we". Both my helmets are plain boring cheap white.

Theo

 

<snip>

I wouldn't expect that they would, zebee. pedantic nitpicking grin

 

Pretty graphics. Haga replica. I didn't really care if it had pretty colours
or not as long as it somewhat matched my bike.The plain red didn't.

It's an Arai RX-7RR BTW.

Personally I pay for comfort. This helmet is the most comfy I have ever
worn, hands down. After an hour or two on my head it's better than many
helmets are as soon as they are put on.

YMMV, buy what you can afford and whatever keeps you happy.


Aaron
ZX6R

 

In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:51:58 +1000

As long as you acknowledge that's what it is.

If you say "I can't prove it, I think it's better" that's more honest
than telling a novice "it's better".

Zebee

 

This is true to an extent, but I've yet to find a REALLY light cheapy.EXR plastic open face...$70 or so...quite light...doubt you could get
lighter...except one of those skullcap things or a 'shorty' helmet maybe

 

After reading this thread ( Morphets wife again)
I fully intend to get him a fantastic helmet, when ( not if... when)
he gets his motorbike, I don't care how much he has to spend on safety
gear, i want him covered from head to toe when he goes on the bike and
in quality, safe gear, full face helmet, no matter what its costs. (i
could pay for this when he reads it... I bought him a matchbox
motorbike what more does he want)


i just want my husband home in one peice every night! I also want him
to have his fun too, so if that means a motorbike so be it!

Kate, (Morphet's wife)

 

In aus.motorcycles on Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:11:28 +1000

Excellent!

Buy him also some advanced training.

After he's been riding for about 6 months send him on a HART or Stay
Upright advanced course, and after a year or so on the Superbike school
level 1.

He'll have a much better chance of not needing the gear.

Zebee

 

Ummm. Read the thread again Kate, there isn't a huge difference
in quality despite the huge difference in price. Skip the
thousand-dollar-race-rep helmet and buy him a decent helmet and
an advanced rider training course instead.

-----sharks

 

I'll do that for sure, all the courses he needs and decent saftey
gear, not the race-rep stuff, he's not interested in those anyway,
right now i think he'd be happy to get the bike and gear. But even he
says he'll do all the saftey and advanced courses.

I'm probably a huge worry wart, I just worry about the other drivers
on the road of the four and more wheel variety. i know from walking
with our kids ( they are pretty hard to miss in our tandem Jogger
pram) how little attention other drivers pay to red lights ( truck and
courier drivers are the worst). if I wasn't on my toes about that one
we would be run over just about every time we go out, hence the reason
I won't cross a road unless I use a proper crossing. So if they have
so much disregard for pedestrians with prams, how much more dangerous
is it for motorcyclists on the road. I have every confidence in him
doing the right thing and doing all the safety things he has to but
that said I'll probably chew my fingernails down to the knuckles every
night until he gets home. But i suppose if he's as good a motor cycle
driver as he is a car driver he'll be fine, I've just got to stop
worrying!

 

And as with caviar, Russian polycarbonate is renowned to be the best...

; )
Adrian
CT-110