A student wrecks, during MTC course.

Discussion in 'Texas Bikers' started by BJayKana, Dec 5, 2005.

  1. BJayKana

    Calgary Guest

    Bjay, if you have to think about it, don't bother responding. It is
    not a test, just focal points for a discussion on riding techniques.
    When or if you end up in an emergency situation there is no time for
    thinking. That's why you should understand how to perform emergency
    maneuvers and practice them all the time.

    A good example is braking. I see a lot of riders who do not use the
    front brake all the time. If it's a casual maneuver they might just be
    using the back brake. Some even buy into that old urban myth using the
    front brake is dangerous. There is a reason bike manufacturers put the
    big stoppers on the front. That is where the stopping power is. So if
    you are not in the habit of using the front brake all the time (ok
    excluding those rare occasions such as a tight downhill turn on a
    slippery surface)when you are faced with an emergency situation and
    have to think 'oh now I need the front brake" it will be too late.
    Further if you do not know how to perform an emergency swerve and have
    practiced it you will not be able to use it when braking power is not
    enough.
    I'll bet you a steak and a beer that you, me and many of the others
    who read this group would still learn something from a beginners
    course. Besides ain't it fun to get on one of those small bikes and
    bang around on it.
    I do not believe one gains knowledge without study nor do I believe
    one gains experience without practice.

    For instance I rode almost 30,000 km (18,000 miles) last season.
    10,000 km was during a cross country ride. I didn't learn anything on
    that ride. I did gain some experience practicing the techniques and
    riding dynamics I learned while reading one of David Houghs books last
    winter. Had I not consciously practiced those techniques I wouldn't
    have gained experience either. I would have just repeated the same
    experience from years and miles past.

    Hopping on a bike and riding without any base knowledge of what is
    happening or what you are doing in my opinion is just a repetition of
    the experience you gained while learning to ride.

    We talk of street smarts around here from time to time. So through the
    sheer act of riding we learn we have a bulls eye painted on our backs
    and the BDC's are out hunting us. But surviving that gauntlet of BDC's
    involves so much more than just panning the road ahead and behind.
    You're right watching those mirrors is as important as watching the
    activities ahead.

    Last summer I watched a really good guy (now nicknamed Suicide
    Dan)riding a wonderfully tricked out Roadie go down on a winding
    mountain road for no other reason than he didn't understand counter
    steering or target fixation. Now Dan claimed four years of riding
    experience, but he didn't have the base knowledge he could have
    acquired in a two day beginners course to make that riding experience
    worthwhile. What made it even worse was I recalled the night before,
    while sitting in the bar with the group, one guy who represented
    himself as an accomplished rider trying to tell Dan how to corner and
    he also did not mention counter steering. He had Dan doing all kinds
    of physical gymnastics on the seat to coax the bike into a lean when
    all it takes is a gentle push on the bars.

    Say what you will about Reeky, there are some accomplished riders who
    have come and gone through there and I have learned a bunch of good
    info from them.
    How's that golf game doing. Shooting your age yet? :)
    --


    Don
    RCOS# 7
    No Riding Today

    2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/radium1.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/venture.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/gem.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/highwood.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reynolds.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/sask.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/osoyoos.htm
     
    Calgary, Dec 9, 2005
    #21
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  2. BJayKana

    Calgary Guest

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  3. BJayKana

    BJayKana Guest

    ‘‘Hey Iggy, did you not get the part,where i said Honey took the
    MTC, about a month ago. I even reported how proud I was, and how well
    she done, and that it cost $165. Put your thinkng cap on. ahhh, you
    recall now,huh?''
                                  (BJAY,
    uh grinning)!

    ‘‘Bjay, you're missing Iggy's point. He said, "Do yourself and your
    wife a favor and both of you take a course." (Sunny Gal)!

    ‘‘ Sunny Gal, I guess I did. But, she did take the course, I
    thought iggy insenuated I should take the same course as she. That's the
    course for beginners, not for me. If the ''expert MTC'' is ever
    available in my immediate area, I would certainly consider it.
    Insurance is not an issue for me, because mine is only $48 bucks a year,
    It don't get any better than that, reckon. (grin)’’ BJAY)!
     
    BJayKana, Dec 9, 2005
    #23
  4. BJayKana

    BJayKana Guest

    (calgary wrote earlier)
    ‘‘ Explain to me how to perform an emergency stop. After that
    work a swerve into that emergency stop. Then add a manhole cover you
    have to ride over during the emergency stop. Then do it all again on a
    wet road.’’ Don)!

    ‘‘Don, been there done that a few times, I bet we all have. I
    learned some of that when we traveled one spring, and it rained all
    day,the first 2 days’’ Bjay)!

    ‘‘Bjay,what do you do when you pull up and stop at a red
    light?
    How do you chose your line into a corner and why?
    Do you brake, accelerate or stay smooth and even on the throttle when
    entering a curve and why.’’ Don B.)!

    ‘‘Don, put the left down first, then the other foot. Nest
    part) Use Smooth throttle, certainly don't brake, let off throttle if
    need be’’ BJAY)

    ‘‘Bjay,which peg do you put your weight when performing a
    slow speed full lock turn? Better yet tell me how you perform a full
    lock slow speed turn?’’
    Don B)!

    ‘‘Don, this one is too technical for me. But will take a stab
    at it Grin).
    I know how,when and what the friction zone is,,and how and when to use
    the rear brake in conjunction with the use of the clutch in the FZ, in
    performing a slow UTurn. etc.’’ BJAY)!


    ‘‘ Bjay, which direction is it easier to perform a full lock
    slow speed turn and why? Don B)!

    ‘‘Don, all slow turns are easier to the left, because ot
    the extended left hand on the clutch. The right turn is some what
    harder’’ BJAY)!

    ‘‘ BJAY,I am not picking on you or your comment but just
    trying to point out there are different thresholds of "experience". Now
    maybe you can answer all of those questions consistent with the tried
    and proven riding techniques that are written about in books and taught
    in the training courses. If you can I applaud you as a rider of some
    experience, but I can tell you I rode for more than twenty years before
    I understood counter steering.’’
    (DON B)!

    ‘‘Don, the counter steering tech has been used for many years,
    it is, that we didnt realize we were doing it, and didnt have a name
    for it. Push the left hand grip, the bike turns left so easily, then
    visa versa, and it turns easily to the right. No pulling, or pushing,no
    amount of leaning ones body, is particularly needed. (all this tech
    stuff is): like an ole Grandma, who is a great cook, But, she doesnt
    have any written recepies, or couldn't for the life of her, tell you any
    measurements, mixes, and whatever. She cook by ''end Stink'' (wink).

    Don,that reminds me of a bunch of us ole vet riders, who don't have any
    fancy tech names, for how and what we do, to be a good and safe
    motorcycle rider. But somehow, have managed to have never wrecked, or
    have too many close calls.
    (knocking on my wooden desk top here, wink)

    Don, more about my 360* vision tech!! That really means your ass better
    be looking all around ya, because those cagers, dern sure ain't looking
    all around as they drive,when it comes to watching out for two wheelers,
    heh heh.! BJAY)!


    ‘‘ Bjay,I rode for many more after that before I gained even
    the minimal understanding I have now of riding dynamics. And believe me
    I am not trying to pretend I am some kind of expert, cuz I am not. I
    have learned just enough so I appreciate how much more there is to
    learn. ’’ DON B)!

    ‘‘Don, no doubt from this ole Texan.’’ BJAY)!

    ‘‘Bjay,now after riding for two decades I used to claim 20
    years of riding experience, when in fact I had one years experience 20
    times.’’ DON B)!

    ‘‘Don, not a bad way to put it’’
    (BJAY)!

    ‘‘Bjay,today, I am a better rider than I was in any of those
    initial 20 years, not because I have continued to log more miles, but
    because I have tried to learn more about riding these bikes we all
    enjoy. Hell I even practice situational awareness when I am driving my
    car or the company truck.’’ DON B)!

    ‘‘Don, that situational awareess, reminds me of my 360*
    awareness, unnnhuh?’’ BJAY)!

    ‘‘Bjay,we had a guy over in Reeky who one day bragged about
    how he was riding third in line with two of his friends. A truck pulled
    out in front of the lead rider forcing the bikes to stop. The first two
    riders were able to stop. The third rider couldn't so he pulled into the
    lane of opposing traffic playing a game of chicken with the truck that
    had forced his riding buds to stop. Now this guy claimed 40 years of
    riding experience but with all that experience and at least three
    seconds more time than his buds, why could he not stop as the others
    did? Answer - He didn't know how. He had stopped his bike tens of
    thousands of times but he couldn't do it anywhere near as fast as his
    friends could. ’’ Don B)!

    ‘‘Don, I have heard of such things, I have had to shut'er
    down a few times, and saved my ass, from harm, by paying attention, to
    the bikes in front and behind me. I 'want' they should have plenty of
    room, from a selfish standpoint.’’ BJAY)!

    ‘‘BJAY,I apologize for not reading all of this thread and I
    may have missed some important stuff, but the one point I will make, is
    taking a competent riding course will make any untrained rider better,
    regardless of how many years of experience they have.’’ DON B)!

    ‘‘DON, that is okay. You know how threads do, they start
    going one direction, and take off another’’ BJAY)!

    ‘‘BJAY,at the end of the day I have more fun riding now than I
    ever had before, partially because I have a better understanding of what
    I am doing and partially because riding is just plain fun.
    Next spring I am signing up for an advanced rider course at the "Too
    Cool Motorcycle School". (heh, heh, I love that name).’’
    Don aka Cagary)!\

    ‘‘Don, that sounds like something I might just get involved
    in, a training deal, for guys like me. But this MTC, that Honey entered
    and graduated with honors, and feels good about what she learned, has
    nothing to offer for me. I am not interesting in doing it for Insurance
    purposes, so, I will wait for the Expert MTC. regards,( BJAY)!
     
    BJayKana, Dec 9, 2005
    #24
  5. BJayKana

    BJayKana Guest

    ‘‘BJAY,You ask for advice, then discount it when someone gives
    it. You are exactly the type of rider I spoke of in my first reply to
    you. You think years gives you all the answers....not so. Do yourself
    and your wife a favor and both of you take a course. It will be money
    well spent.’’ (IGGY)!

    ‘‘IGGY, I didn ask for advice, I ask calgary to explain his
    response to me, about riding on a one way street. I wanted to know more.
    I didnt understand his point. IGGY, this is what I call an ongoing
    discussion. First one contributor states an opinion, and then another
    makes a response. The response can be affirmative, or a sign of
    disagreement.´WhatChaThink’’? BJAY)!
     
    BJayKana, Dec 9, 2005
    #25
  6. BJayKana

    BJayKana Guest

    ‘‘BJAY,you are exactly the type of rider I spoke of in my first
    reply to you. You think years gives you all the answers....not so.
    ’’ IGGY)!


    ‘‘IGGY, down here in Texas, I grew up with older fellas
    telling me, ''son, experience is the best teacher’’.That certainly
    covers a lotta stuff in ones life, as he grows older.’’ BJAY)!
     
    BJayKana, Dec 9, 2005
    #26
  7. BJayKana

    BJayKana Guest

    ‘‘Don, you said something about my golf game and my age? Well, I
    am glad I am not 89, heheheheh. Don, you might just be the only feller
    that knows what I am saying here, grin)!

    'Ya'll take care'' --BJAY--
     
    BJayKana, Dec 9, 2005
    #27
  8. BJayKana

    Calgary Guest

    Ok after reading all of your responses, to the "test" I'll send you a
    big chunk of Canadian Maple to knock on. If you get into a bad
    situation you will need it.

    When I was working as a safety officer we used to refer to two types
    of unsafe people on the job site. The unconscious incompetent. This
    would be a new hire who didn't know dick about the equipment he was
    working with or the job he was supposed to be doing. The other was the
    conscious incompetent. This was one of those ole vets who had been
    doing the job for many years, without any regard for safe work
    practices or procedures.

    Both of these guys could be unsafe on the work site. Both of them
    could become safer with a little knowledge and experience.

    I am glad you have ridden safely all of these years, but it is not
    because you ride using all of the safe riding tools available to you,
    and just don't know the tech names for them, it is because you haven't
    needed that last three feet of stopping distance or that BDC looking
    for that target on your back hasn't found you yet.

    Once again I am not criticizing or dumping on you, I am just making
    the point you would be a better, safer rider with a little more
    knowledge and training. It makes riding more fun too.

    Pick up David Houghs book on proficient motorcycling. It's an easy fun
    read all riders can relate to. And I guarantee you, you will pick up a
    lot of tips and information that will make your next ride a hell of a
    lot more fun. And that's what it is all about.
    --


    Don
    RCOS# 7
    No Riding Today

    2000 - Yamaha Venture Millenium Edition
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/radium1.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/banff.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/kananaskis.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/walkercalgary.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/calgarybrowning.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/venture.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/gem.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/highwood.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/reynolds.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/sask.htm
    http://www3.telus.net/public/dbinns/osoyoos.htm
     
    Calgary, Dec 9, 2005
    #28
  9. BJayKana

    Calgary Guest

    Calgary, Dec 9, 2005
    #29
  10. BJayKana

    BJayKana Guest

    ‘‘BJAY, I am glad you have ridden safely all of these years,
    but it is not because you ride using all of the safe riding tools
    available to you, and just don't know the tech names for them, it is
    because you haven't needed that last three feet of stopping distance or
    that BDC looking for that target on your back hasn't found you yet.
    Once again I am not criticizing or dumping on you, I am just making the
    point you would be a better, safer rider with a little more knowledge
    and training. It makes riding more fun too.
    Pick up David Houghs book on proficient motorcycling. It's an easy fun
    read all riders can relate to. And I guarantee you, you will pick up a
    lot of tips and information that will make your next ride a hell of a
    lot more fun. And that's what it is all about.

    ( Don Binns of calgary, way up north)
    ==================================
    ‘‘Don, thanks for your comments. As far as my good fortune to have
    never encountered a situation of serious endangerment, all these many
    years of Riding, I continue to count my blessings, and think, <I must
    have ridden fairly intelligently>!.
    I 've always considered myself a conservative rider, trying not to put
    myself in unsafe predicaments. Never been one to take real unsafe
    chances.
    That BDC you mention above probably has us all targeted, but you and I
    and hopefully others, have managed to dodge the rascal.(wink)
    My riding buddy Skunk, has had his share of misfortunate
    motorcycle accidents. He has hit dogs, ditches, encountered a few
    cages,and consequently broke a few bones. But the ole boy, is a chance
    taking rider, like a daredevil. He still, will let go of handlebars, and
    lean and stretch way back on his passenger seat @ 65mph, ride side
    saddle, just a does stuff I have never desired to try.
    Yes, (Iggy),we do ride together, I am use to him, after many
    years of traveling,and give him plenty of room. But he is my best riding
    friend, and my Golf Pardner.(wink!)
    Don Binns,thanks for your friendly and interesting views about
    this popular topic, and your well received suggestions on my part, I aim
    to go to Books A Million, and read a little bit of the David Hough book.
    There, one can sit and read quite a bit of a book, and not even
    have to buy it, but if it stands up to yours and Wakkos praise, and I
    think, I cannot live with out it, I'll buy the dern thing, (grin).
    One more comment, either I am the only'iest one of TMoto's few
    regulars, that hasnt taken the MTC, or, I'm the only one that is honest
    in my opinions about how I feel about the popular MTC, and state the
    reasons why I probably will never take it, atleast the begnners course.
    BJAY)
     
    BJayKana, Dec 10, 2005
    #30
  11. BJayKana

    Bill Walker Guest

    See there, JailCall.. You are not doing it right.. Let that be a lesson to
    you.. sheesh..lol

    Bill Walker
     
    Bill Walker, Dec 10, 2005
    #31
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