In aus.motorcycles on 5 Jan 2004 21:56:48 -0800 [QUOTE="Tim"] I once fell of while enthusiastically exiting a gravel car park at about 10kph, OK so I was not enthusiastic...lets say cautious and tired. Anyway deep gouges in the front of my helmet told me that I had just avoided a trip to the dentist, followed by a trip to the plastic surgeon (and then to the bank to pay for it all). [/QUOTE] Hmm.. I've fallen off many times at that speed or more, in various items of kit, and not had that severity of damage. So I'll continue to ride in my open face, and a denim jacket or less, when I want to. Zebee