600's

Well I was being flippant, but I was referring to the habit around here
of the lads who've just got off their restrictions who go out buy an
R1/Gixxer thou and find out what happens when you give it a fistful out
of a corner. Spinning tyre steps out, tyro has brown undies moment and
shuts the throttle and then imitates superman.

They don't do that in the UK ?

JL

 

Yeah sorry, I was referring to sports 600s (which seemed to be the main
thrust of the thread), apologies if my post was unwelcome.

Oh yeah you can usually keep up OK if they're doing roughly the speed
limit, what you lose in corner speed you can usually make up with gobs
of torque on the exit, but if the Supersport crowd decide to say stuff
the coppers then it becomes bloody hard work to keep up for me. It's a
whole heap of metal to fling around in the tight stuff.

I'm just an average rider, I'm sure an excellent rider would eat me and
my mates for breakfast on the Bandit 12 or probably the Bandit 6 - skill
set always counts for more. But between riders of roughly the same skill
set I'd suggest the ~125HP and 160Kg of a GSXR 6 is probably quicker
through tight stuff than the ~125Hp and 240Kg with relatively more
primitive suspension and ground clearance. Torque matters sure, and if
we're talking big open sweepers then the Bandit is on it's home turf. On
the other hand the soft suspension makes easy work of crap road
surfaces, and hence roads I detested on the TRX were very pleasant on
the Bandit.

Which would make a helluva difference to it's handling, both gaining
ground clearance and sharpening the turn in enormously, an inch is not
an insignificant change (and on that bike a big positive)

Not really, jacking it up an inch or three is exactly what I suggested
would improve it no end. If it only then touched down two up, it maybe
needed a bit more preload or a stiffer spring rate ?

Mmm ? Which bit about it ? I've had quite a few people on the back and
no complaints. Before I traded it I was thinking about an after market
seat for my benefit.

Well I had an R1 before it, and a TRX before that (and etc back a list
of bikes with reasonably good ground clearance), the Bandit ground
clearance was rather noticeable and irritating. On the other hand it has
to be the most stable bike in a corner I've ever ridden. It's been nice
on the Raptor (which is jacked up taller than the standard raptors) to
have oodles of ground clearance even two up. Mind you she now complains
about the pillion seat (no sympathy, she has her own bike to ride now).

JL

 

Much more likely on a 600, I'd have thought, given the (relatively)
peaky nature of their power delivery.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Golf, innit?

 

Tsk, tsk. Was this in your protective t-shirt and virtual gloves ;-)

Nice, innit, but it's not a 1200 Blackbird :-(

It's, very .. Kawasaki.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

Well firstly I wasn't the one suggesting a Bandit 12 was easier to ride
fast than a modern 600 - I in fact objected to that suggestion. Secondly
, I didn't think the original discussion was about competent riders, I
thought the conversation was about lesser skilled rider's ability to
ride quickly on a 600sports rather than a litre sportsbike.

I dunno, I think the key difference is that throttle control is poorer
for those of lesser skill, and hence less HP is a good thing.

On the third hand (just call me Zaphod) I'd suggest the bike that
actually best fits the description of best allrounder / easiest to ride
quickly with little effort/requiring less skill to ride reasonably
quickly would be a litre twin in a sporty-ish frame. VTR/SV/ST2/Falco /
Monster/Raptor etc - torquey twins with flat torque curves and very mild
power delivery, reasonable amount of power without going up to stupid
numbers etc

But then that's probably why I just bought one, so I'm biased
JL

 

On Wed, 04 May 2005 23:27:56 +1000, John Littler

You've just not grasped the main point here, which is that a
litre-bike develops nice smooth power throughout the rev range,
meaning that the rider, particularly a relative newbie, will spend far
less time up in the higher rev ranges. Snatchy use of throttle would
have a far greater impact at 10k rpm on a sports 600 than at 5k on a
1000. Which is why they're easier to ride.

I get the impression that you're arguing without really knowing. How
much time have you sepnt on a modern 1000cc sports bike?


--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2
`\|/`
`

 

Heh. I remember thinking: "I'm not dresed for this: best not do much
over 130..." and then realising how silly that sounded.

Indeed. A 'Bird feels like a CBR600 with more grunt: whizzy, efficient,
Honda. The ZX12R is much more raw.

 

I beg to differ, I do get your point, I just don't happen to agree with
it.

It depends on what litre bikes we're discussing. If we're talking about
the power delivery of a Bandit 12, then absolutely, it's method of
delivery is far more user friendly, if we're talking a Gixxer Thou (and
that was the original starting point litre SS vs 600SS) then no I don't
agree. While the GSXR1000 and the R1 may have nice fat torque curves
(particularly compared to years ago), they still develop HP numbers at
even low revs that I don't low skilled riders should be allowed
anywhere near. Yes if you ride the Gixxer two or 3 gears too high and
hence ride around at about 3 or 4K the throttle response will be
relatively soggy and newbie manageable, but being realistic, is that

And snatchy use of the throttle on a bike with 160hp at anything much
more than 8K rpm isn't going to be a pretty sight. Are you suggesting
the noob is going to ride better because they're too scared to get
above the first half of the rev range ?

A *competent* rider isn't going to work as hard on the road on a litre
bike as they will on a 600, no argument. On the other hand a modern 600
puts out as much HP as leading litre bikes of 15-20 years ago, with
immeasurably better brakes, suspension and frame.

Like I said above, in my opinion a large-ish twin is a far better
allrounder for the less competent.

Well that's a pretty patronising comment, so I'm not going to bite, if
you really want to know, google aus.moto - my complete list of bikes
over the last 30 years was posted there a year or two ago when the
question was thrown to list up what you've had.

JL

 

Erm, I think not - you're more likely to get spat off by the likes of a
TL1000 and Firestorm for daring to use the throttle at the lower end of the
rev range, than you are a GSX-R Thou / R1 etc.

 

Works for me )

 

I beg to differ... and I've owned both (1997)TL1000S and see sig for current
bike. IME the gixer is a lot less forgiving than the TL was, in fact I would
go as far as to say the TL was underpowered at the side of the gixer. The
gixer delivers its power a lot more brutally than the TL ever could. And the
firestorm was way behind the TL in power and harshness of delivery.