40 going on 4

The Setting:

Last week, Key West, Florida, temps in the upper 70's to lower 80's, gentle
breeze, beautiful cloudless sunny skies, my wife and I, along with several
other couples around us, are enjoying a wonderful meal and quiet
conversation
at an open air cafe near the old town city center.

Enter several childish morons with their straight pipe Harleys on
the street outside:

Conversation stops, those around us wince and some curses are murmured as
the deafening roar of the Harley's destroy the peaceful ambiance. The pilots
of these machines, like 5 year old children, are intent on making their
presence known by incessant revving of their engines until they are finally
shut down as they park them at the bar across the street. Mark up another
victory in the battle to shut down areas of the US to all motorcycles.

I know that this topic has been covered before but why is it so hard to get
this kind of behavior stopped? What's wrong with passing a law that says
that all motorcycles must be equipped with OEM mufflers or their equivalent?
I know some will say that it's already against the law via various noise
ordinances throughout the US but the problem is that these "noise" laws
simply
aren't specific enough to hit the problem on the head and they're hard to
enforce. What's needed is a specific, unambiguous law that leaves little
wiggle room.

Don't know about you folks, but I'm with a lot of Americans in their
irritation with this immature behavior. My recent edition of the AMA
magazine stated that they were fighting motorcycle banning ordinances in
five places. These cases will only increase until something is done to deal
with the source of the problem rather than its effect.
___________________________________
Mick McHam Houston, Tx
'99 ST1100ABS STOC# 1134
'99 VFR800FI
website: http://www.hal-pc.org/~mmcham

 

The same thing that's wrong with every sentence that starts out with,
"There ought to be a law...". Do the math and come back to me when
you figure out that the government isn't the answer to all your bitching.

 

What's wrong with passing a law that says

I'm not concerned with ideology Mark. I just want something done about the
obnoxious behavior of those that choose to disturb the piece with straight
pipes however it's done. If it's not taken care of soon, there will be many
municipalities banning all motorcycles (not just "straight pipers") in some
of our favorite riding areas. There will always be people in our midst that
will practice anti-social behavior. They are NOT going to voluntarily stop
it. The only thing that will force them to change their ways are laws that
are enforced. Sorry but laws come from the government. If you can come up
with some other way to alter their behavior I'm open to hearing about it.
___________________________________
Mick McHam Houston, Tx
'99 ST1100ABS STOC# 1134
'99 VFR800FI
website: http://www.hal-pc.org/~mmcham

 

I agree, I guess. As long as they're just motoring down the road,
it doesn't bother me too much. But, that showoff decibel pissing
contest stuff, gets old real fast.

I know the argument is "loud pipes save lives", but they can ruin
some lives also. I don't believe that having loud pipes are any
more safe than regular mufflers. My reasoning is the same as
emergency vehicles. They can be heard, but often you will see
others drivers pull right in front of them in the confusion of the
attempt to get out of the way. I think the loud pipes rationalization
is merely justification hype. They are certainly saving no lives
sitting in a bar parking lot, revving until all the windows shatter.

Regarding the noise ordinance. When I was a kid, first beginning
to ride the small Hondas, etc. We always wanted, and sometimes
did, replace the stock mufflers with louder exhausts(megaphones).
(I haven't heard that word in a while, kinda' like calling a band a
combo. lol), but we were always careful because the local const-
abulary could, and did, give us "loud muffler" tickets.

Apparently, that doesn't happen anymore, or at least, I've not seen
any worry of it. You'd probably come closer to a noise violation by
those "woofer guns" in the back seat of your "schevy", than a Harly
pumpin' out 160db.

Gary

 

Hey now, Mitch.. sounds like you have an issue.. Tell you what.. the TMRA II
state advisors meeting is going to start at 1:00 PM saturday, Nov.13th.. in
Elgin, Tx..

That would be an excellent opportunity for you to make your concerns heard
... That meeting will be expicitly for the concerns and issues affecting ALL
bikers.. The upcoming legislative session have some specific bills that will
be addressed also.. The meeting is open and you'll be welcome, even though
you are not a member of TMRA II..

You have a special invitation from me to attend, as my guest.. Have a good
one and I'll be looking for you tomorrow.. OK ?

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

:
: I agree, I guess. As long as they're just motoring down the road,
: it doesn't bother me too much. But, that showoff decibel pissing
: contest stuff, gets old real fast.
:
: I know the argument is "loud pipes save lives", but they can ruin
: some lives also. I don't believe that having loud pipes are any
: more safe than regular mufflers. My reasoning is the same as
: emergency vehicles. They can be heard, but often you will see
: others drivers pull right in front of them in the confusion of the
: attempt to get out of the way. I think the loud pipes rationalization
: is merely justification hype. They are certainly saving no lives
: sitting in a bar parking lot, revving until all the windows shatter.
:
: Regarding the noise ordinance. When I was a kid, first beginning
: to ride the small Hondas, etc. We always wanted, and sometimes
: did, replace the stock mufflers with louder exhausts(megaphones).
: (I haven't heard that word in a while, kinda' like calling a band a
: combo. lol), but we were always careful because the local const-
: abulary could, and did, give us "loud muffler" tickets.
:
: Apparently, that doesn't happen anymore, or at least, I've not seen
: any worry of it. You'd probably come closer to a noise violation by
: those "woofer guns" in the back seat of your "schevy", than a Harly
: pumpin' out 160db.
:
: Gary

Having a really quite Beemer pass me is very annoying and at times
startling. Why not outlaw OEM mufflers and make everyone run straight pipes?

Everybody has an axe to grind. What ever happened to tolerance, live and let
live and live free or die?

Now, if it really bugs you, the next time you become annoyed by loud
mufflers, why not just go over to the culprit and ask him, in a polite
manner of course, to shut it down?

 

:
: : > The Setting:
: >
: > Last week, Key West, Florida, temps in the upper 70's to lower 80's,
: gentle
: > breeze, beautiful cloudless sunny skies, my wife and I, along with
: several
: > other couples around us, are enjoying a wonderful meal and quiet
: > conversation
: > at an open air cafe near the old town city center.
: >
: > Enter several childish morons with their straight pipe Harleys on
: > the street outside:
: >
: > Conversation stops, those around us wince and some curses are murmured
as
: > the deafening roar of the Harley's destroy the peaceful ambiance. The
: pilots
: > of these machines, like 5 year old children, are intent on making their
: > presence known by incessant revving of their engines until they are
: finally
: > shut down as they park them at the bar across the street. Mark up
another
: > victory in the battle to shut down areas of the US to all motorcycles.
: >
: > I know that this topic has been covered before but why is it so hard to
: get
: > this kind of behavior stopped? What's wrong with passing a law that says
: > that all motorcycles must be equipped with OEM mufflers or their
: equivalent?
: > I know some will say that it's already against the law via various noise
: > ordinances throughout the US but the problem is that these "noise" laws
: > simply
: > aren't specific enough to hit the problem on the head and they're hard
to
: > enforce. What's needed is a specific, unambiguous law that leaves little
: > wiggle room.
: >
: > Don't know about you folks, but I'm with a lot of Americans in their
: > irritation with this immature behavior. My recent edition of the AMA
: > magazine stated that they were fighting motorcycle banning ordinances in
: > five places. These cases will only increase until something is done to
: deal
: > with the source of the problem rather than its effect.
:
: Hey now, Mitch.. sounds like you have an issue.. Tell you what.. the TMRA
II
: state advisors meeting is going to start at 1:00 PM saturday, Nov.13th..
in
: Elgin, Tx..
:
: That would be an excellent opportunity for you to make your concerns heard
: .. That meeting will be expicitly for the concerns and issues affecting
ALL
: bikers.. The upcoming legislative session have some specific bills that
will
: be addressed also.. The meeting is open and you'll be welcome, even though
: you are not a member of TMRA II..
:
: You have a special invitation from me to attend, as my guest.. Have a
good
: one and I'll be looking for you tomorrow.. OK ?
:
: Your friend in Irving
: Bill Walker

You're a real trip, Walker. Walker, is that your name or how you get around?

: > Due to some personal complications, I will be unable to attend the
District
Advisors meeting in Austin, tomorrow.. Sat. Nov. 13th...

The importance of this meeting is critical and I encourage and urge everyone
who rides a motorcycle to attend and participate in this meeting.. Whether
you are a member or not.. TMRA II has a welcome for you.. The meetings are
open and available to all the public..

I'm very disappointed that I'll be unable to be there.. but.. everyone
should find something of interest in this most important of gatherings..
besides..you will be associated with some of the finest and most courageous
of the bikers amongst us.. The experience will definitely be one that will
be unforgettable.. Your voices will be heard and respected .. Your concerns
will be considered and you'll enjoy the fellowship of some of the finest in
our state.. Go there..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

So enforce the existing laws already on the books. This isn't an
ideological issue, it's a freedom issue. To jump out and beg for more
laws as a first choice is the same as asking for manacles and leg
irons. Hold your official's feet to the fire to enforce existing laws
instead of begging for more laws that will also be ignored.

 

No offense, but I don't particularly like the idea of the govt. having
more control / restriction over what I am allowed to do with my ride.

I don't really like the HD riders with the straight pipes being
assholes anymore than the next person. However, I would be lying if I
said my bike was "quiet." Anyone that has ridden with me knows that
it is not. Technically speaking, my bike has an SPL level above the
legal limit, but it's nowhere near as loud as the HD folks.

I think the key thing is whether or not you are abusive of the power
and rights that you have. In this case, it sounds like those folks
were abusing it and infringing on YOUR rights.

Banning bikes? You mean outright in the county / city / town? Is
that legal?

--Fullstate

Me and Mah 'Priller!

 

IT could happen, my friend.. Several years ago, a club got pulled over, on
their way to a rally in Oklahoma.. A local cop in a small wide spot in the
highway town, pulled over about twenty members of a club out of Tulsa.
Probable cause for the stop was "colors". Seems the town had an ordinance
against wearing club colors.. Three of the bikers refused to take off their
vests and doo rags.. They were arrested and taken to jail.. After arriving
at the rally, which was in a nearby town, the rest of the bikers involved in
the stop, told the brothers and sisters what had happened.. Soon there were
more than three hundred bikers around the courthouse, demanding the release
of those arrested bikers.. Needless to say, the situation became very
tense.. Threats of National Guard and State Police were made, until
finally.. one of the town's officials ordered the bikers released..

Not relevant.. sure it is..

Towns can pass ordinances of their choosing.. Those ordinances must be
fought in court.. Time and money is involved and most of us don't have the
time nor the resources to fight them, we just mail the check to cover the
fine..

Another good example of supporting a motorcycle advocacy group like TMRA
II..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

Whoops.. kinda hard to determine who you are addressing this post to ? I
sure hope it wasn't me.. I've probably owned and ridden more Harley's than
most folks have been close to.. LOL

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

Hey now, Mitch.. sounds like you have an issue.. Tell you what.. the TMRA

I have to be content with just writing political representatives about
whatever I feel needs addressing. Until I retire in a few years, I simply
don't have the time or energy to pour myself into such organizations.
___________________________________
Mick McHam Houston, Tx
'99 ST1100ABS STOC# 1134
'99 VFR800FI
website: http://www.hal-pc.org/~mmcham

 

Yeah, I had heard that story before. I think from you! I can almost
get my hands around the "colors" thing. Not that I agree with it, but
I could see that as a legal argument to keep the bikes away.

Seems it would be tougher to outright ban motorcycles.

Once again, we have to be very careful with what laws we allow to go
onto the books. ;-)


--Fullstate

Me and Mah 'Priller!

 

Banning bikes? You mean outright in the county / city / town? Is
that legal? <<

Yes and it's been happening with increasing frequency lately. I mentioned in
a reply above that the AMA is fighting five such bans in various parts of
the country right now and it's because of loud pipes. I remember a post a
while back that bikes had been banned from some street in Chicago. Yes, it's
legal and is happening. If you have straight pipes, think about the
consequences the next time you get ready to needlessly rev your engine.
___________________________________
Mick McHam Houston, Tx
'99 ST1100ABS STOC# 1134
'99 VFR800FI
website: http://www.hal-pc.org/~mmcham

 

Yeah.. OK.. that's understandable..Writing that representative might get
more results than this newsgroup, but I doubt it.. Until you retire, like
me. you might consider selecting a more appropriate restaurant for the
romantic and quiet evening out with your wife..

Any restaurant that is in an area of Biker hangouts is probably subject to
be noisy and offensive.. At least, that has been my experience..

Law enforcement have already got enough tools they can bring into play, if
they want to harass any group, including Bikers.. TMRA II addresses issues
of all kinds concerning legislation that affects motorcyclists..If you
recall, TMRA II successfully opposed the helmet law, as it was imposed ..
The opposition to that legislation resulted in modification of that law and
with qualification exceptions, we no longer are required to wear helmets in
Texas..

Many other pieces of legislation have been affected by the influence of TMRA
II.. Even though your participation would be limited, your support for them
would be warranted.. Much more effective than newsgroup discussions.. ABATE
and TMRA II both have chapters in your area.. take a look..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

you might consider selecting a more appropriate restaurant for the
romantic and quiet evening out with your wife..
Any restaurant that is in an area of Biker hangouts is probably subject to
be noisy and offensive.. At least, that has been my experience.. <<


That I know of, I wasn't in the area of a biker hangout. It was just three
irresponsible riders who wanted to draw attention to themselves that
disturbed the peace. I wish you could have seen the angry looks on the folks
at the tables nearby me. It makes you understand why bike bans are on the
increase.


Unfortunately they aren't using them. As a result, the public thinks they
need to propose outright bans of motorcycles in certain areas rather than
insisting that the cops enforce what's already on the books.
___________________________________
Mick McHam Houston, Tx
'99 ST1100ABS STOC# 1134
'99 VFR800FI
website: http://www.hal-pc.org/~mmcham

 

<>I assume you dislike anyone riding or owning a harley? whats the deal.
  All rice boxes just as much or more noise down the road too!
Steve............     01 FLHR with loud pipes!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>><
I don't think you were referring to me. I said I enjoyed the "Harley
Sound". THe normal citizen, that ain't a Bike Rider,
thinks all the big Cruisers, Yamaha,Honda,
Kiwasocky, & Suzziki, are Harleys. Especially if they're Black with
lotsa 'chrome! eh! Of course some of

the so/called/Rice/metric-boxes can be loud.....O yeah, some of them
are almost too loud.....

<>haveAgoodDay-Bjay<>

 

I was at the rally.. The colors were patched vests and doo rags.. How about
ordinances that would prohibit riders from wearing designer jackets and
pants ? The location for the stop was on a state highway.. not inside the
town.. How about if they just had an ordinance that made gold colored
pickups illegal in the city limits ? Yeah.. you probably heard it from me
or Brian..

Depends.. Dawgs on Hawgs just had a real scary event a few months ago, at
one of their rallies.. State troopers, constables and Sheriff dept. officers
surrounded the city park and stopped everyone coming or going from the
park.. They don't have to actually "ban" motorcycles, just harass the hell
out of them..

The city official who ordered the release of those bikers, made a comment
afterwards that has stuck with me.. He said something like "You don't
believe that we were actually going to really take serious action against
these guys.. we were just teaching them a lesson." What freakin' lesson ?
And those other bikers didn't over react, as they were accused of.. That
damned town and that damned cop, as well as the town official over reacted
when they jerked those people off a public highway to harass them and "teach
them a lesson".. The bikers reacted appropriately when they went back to
that miserable place and demanded that their friends be released,
immediately..

Those people were just going on their way and passing through, they should
have been free to go on their way..

Exactly.. surprisingly, there are many small towns with ordinances on their
books which no one but locals are aware of.. Some of those ordinances are
prejudicial, most likely they are on the books as tools for law enforcement
to use to enhance revenues for the town.. That deal in Oklahoma was clearly
a little of both.. plus an officer that was a bully, using his badge and gun
to victimize the public.. Unacceptable..

Much the same as you and I going into Stroker's and complaining about the
noise, doo rags and chaps.. I wouldn't dare, would you ? I'd quietly leave
and find another place.. hmmm.. sure do make good hamburger in there,
though.. don't they ?

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

The scenery is nice, too. I kinda like watching the girls they have around
there sometimes.

 

<>I assume you dislike anyone riding or owning a harley? whats the deal.
All rice boxes just as much or more noise down the road too!
Steve............ 01 FLHR with loud pipes!
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>><
I don't think you were referring to me. I said I enjoyed the "Harley
Sound". THe normal citizen, that ain't a Bike Rider,
thinks all the big Cruisers, Yamaha,Honda,
Kiwasocky, & Suzziki, are Harleys. Especially if they're Black with
lotsa 'chrome! eh! Of course some of

the so/called/Rice/metric-boxes can be loud.....O yeah, some of them
are almost too loud.....



There are times I like it, and times I don't. I would have to agree with the
original poster in that I probably wouldn't have liked the noise if I was
relaxing with friends, chatting it up, and having to stop in the middle of a
sentence to let a long line of noisy bikes ride by.

But I don't think it happens all that much, even to Joe Average. To pass a
law against M/C for noise is outrageous. The only time anybody should
complain about the noise is if they live near a clubhouse or biker bar or
something. And then, they should just move...we were there first.