2 quid to miss Birmingham... bargain.

Ace wrote

There must be a number of some sort which relates contact patch area to
pressure but with radial type tyres this should not affect it
significantly I would have thought.

 

No they don't pay enough. No one is forcing them to use this toll road.
It is simple economics - if they consider it is worth paying £10 to save
45 mins then they will pay it.

Yet more sob stories about an industry that is run on the basis of
vicious competition between hauliers, that inflicts huge environmental
damage on the country and its infrastructure and which pays way too
little in taxes to compensate for the damage.

and yes the end customer always pays - so what. It's what happens in a
capitalist system. Perhaps some of that extra cost is worth paying if we
end up with a better country and environment as a result. Cheap prices
in the shops are not the only measure of value in a society.

 

<snip>

Am I the only one that read the subject, saw the OP and thought it was
going to be about brummie hookers?

 

Champ says...And pass the charge on.

Perhaps if all the revenue gained from the current vehicle tax system
was used for just that purpose things might be different. IE, using
better quality materials to surface the roads with that would be more
capable of withstanding the pressures given by the HGV's. Of course,
the fact that HGV's with a higher gross weight from abroad are now
allowed to use our roads than used to be there is bound to an increase
in the wear and tear of the roads. And of course, they don't contribute
to the road fund.
I think we already pay far too much as it is for various things without
seeing the actual benefit.

--
Lesley
ZXR400SP
"Not bad for a Scouser"
SBS#11[with oak-leaf cluster]
BOTAFOT#101A UKRMHRC#12
BONY#54P BOB#18

Un-cork me to reply

 

I'd pay to see that.

 

Of course. That much is obvious and I would have deserve your YTC
comment if that was all there was to it. But this ...

....I find hard to accept. I can see that there will be (obviously) a
link between the three variables, but this will not be constant, given
the variation in wheel/tyre size and the volume of air therein. I
think there should be at least one, probably more, additional
variables in your formula.

For example, take two tyres of the same radius, one containing volume
x of air, the other x*2. Inflate them to the same starting pressure
and apply a force through them. Which of them will deform more? I'd be
quite sure that the lower volume tyre will deform much less, as the
pressure increase therein will be much higher for a given deformation,
countering the additional force being applied through the tyre much
more quickly.

Please feel free to explain why/if I'm talking bollocks, as it's an
area I've often wondered about.

 

Indeed, which is, I suspect, precisely Lesley's point. When it was
first introduced it was supposed to go into a 'road fund' to cover
maintenance of the road system. It's a popular argumant nowadays to
claim that VED paid > money spent on the roads. And it may very well
be true for all I know.

 

If I was lowered onto a fecking bicycle, you can be sure *someone*
would pay. Eventually.

 

Yes, I know, but this is not what you were saying. The formula you
quoted( tyre pressure * contact patch = downward force) doesn't take
into account the pressure difference between loaded and unloaded at
all.

Ahh, unless you're just talking about pressure when fully laden, and
implying that in my example the unladen pressure of the fatter tyre
would have to be much higher then the thinner one to end up with
identical laden pressures?

If so, you've not made it very clear. And I'm still not convinced

Great. Really technical, like. Not.

 

<rushes into thread late>

As far as I can see, Ivan is arguing that contact patches change
with pressure. But that doesn't tell you/me/him/everybody![1]
what the contact patch size for zero pressure is; that requires
knowledge of the shape and deformation properties of the tyre.
Isn't it?



[1] #everybody, needs somebody...

 

ahem.

http://www.nederpoparchief.nl/bluesbrothers/everybody.html

I sentence you to watching "Blues Brothers 2000" ten times

 

err, walk to the station?

Not that I think your alternative suggestion is without merits, i
would *love* a heliport...

 

Yes - so? the consumer benefits in that goods arrive on time or early
instead of being late. For time sensitive industries this allows them to
be more efficient overall and could actually mean that the cost is not
passed on in some cases.

Oh please - that argument went out with the ark. We all conspire with
government not to have such high income tax but accept *knowingly* that
there is no such thing as a free lunch and therefore pay insurance tax,
airport tax, petrol duty, vat, yada yada yada. You will just not get
hypothecation of tax on a large scale because it would not work.

So you increase the cost of roads which increases government capital and
maintenance expenditure. Therefore the government need to raise more tax
to cover increased costs. I know - let's introduce road pricing as a
source of revenue related to usage and environmental impact. Err - isn't
that where we came in?!

Ah right - it's all the fault of those nasty horrible europeans and
their stinking common market allowing all those heavy lorries onto our
roads carrying that nice cheese, wine, beer, italian motorcycles,
mercedes cars etc etc that absolutely no one in the United Kingdom
wishes to purchase. Ok - just so I've got that right then.

Yeah - tough isn't it. If you resent the payment of taxes and the
capitalist system of production then may I suggest North Korea as an
alternative "land of milk and honey" where everything is dirt cheap
because absolutely **** all is actually available for mere citizens to
buy.

 

[snip a corfield reply]

I thought you might like that ;-)

 

http://www.viviun.com/AD-2501/

 

I can't recall VED ever being hypothecated for transport use.

 

But they do a nice line in uniforms and marching.

 

You utter bastard.

 

I just knew you'd have to reply to a post with North Korea in it ;-)

 

6 axles. Sometimes 5.