1st CFV : Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.gps

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FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (OF 2)

Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.gps

Votes must be received by 23:59:59 GMT, 15th Dec 2004.

Please note that, in the CFV only, all email addresses other than
the ballot request address are spamtrapped or munged. Addresses
on the ballot paper are unaltered, in accordance with standard
practice. Please take extreme care, therefore, with the ballot
paper that you receive and ensure that it is not stored in the
mail spool of a virus-infected PC.

For voting questions *only*, contact the Votetaker.

Votetaker: Pedt Scragg <xurgps-query (at) pedt.demon.co.uk>

For questions about the proposed new newsgroup please contact the
proponent.

Proponent : Dave Fawthrop <hyphen (at) hyphenologist.co.uk>

===================================================================

Distribution:

This CFV has been posted to the following newsgroups:

uk.net.news.announce
uk.net.news.config
uk.rec.rec.cycling
uk.rec.driving
uk.rec.motorcycles
uk.rec.sailing
uk.rec.walking
uk.telecom.mobile

===================================================================

This CFV contains the following sections.

1. Votetaker Administrative Note
2. Rationale from the last RFD
3. Summary of Discussion from the Proponent
4. Changes from the last RFD from the Proponent
5. Newsgroups line
6. Charter
7. Standard Voting Instructions
8. Ballot paper

===================================================================

VOTETAKER administrative note
- -----------------------------

The 2nd RFD for uk.rec.gps contained two sections under the heading of
"Rationale:". The additional rationale contained within the 2nd RFD
concerned changes made from the 1st RFD following discussion. As it
concerns changes to the 1st RFD and not the 2nd, it cannot appear in
the CFV under "CHANGES from the last RFD". This section has, therefore,
been moved to the end of the Proponent's Summary of Discussion in order
to provide a properly formatted CFV.

===================================================================

RATIONALE from the last RFD

The Global Positioning System (GPS) is run by the US Department of
Defense using about 24 satellites in polar orbit. GPS receivers which
now cost as little a GBP100 in a mobile phone sized case, use signals
from these satellites to give a position accurate to a few meters. The
more expensive versions may be combined with a mobile phone, personal
organizer, palmtop, laptop computer, and may include map, car or person
navigation software.

GPS receivers are used in many recreational activities, walking,
sailing, climbing, cycling, Geocaching, etc where it is useful to know
where you are, and which direction to travel, speed etc. etc. in the
middle of a moor, lake, sea, city or even motorway. Also such
recreations as rocketry for altitude verification, tracking etc.

Google groups shows that in uk.* newsgroups there have been more than
800 threads mentioning GPS in the past year.

Geocaching is a relatively new recreation, where a cache of objects of
little value are placed in a waterproof box at stated coordinates where
others can find them by GPS. The new "Right to Roam" legislation
together with improvement in accuracy and falling prices may well
catalyze other GPS based recreations.

It is expected that uk.rec.gps will have general GPS threads, in the
same way as uk.food+drink.misc, and other uk.* groups will have threads
specific to their own charters. As an example the "GPS versus map and
compass" debate will continue on uk.rec.walking for the foreseeable
future. It is hoped that it may become a repository for uk.* expertise
on GPS.

A thread subject "uk.rec.gps anybody" Raised 16 people in favour of
this newsgroup, and many who wished to continue ???+gps threads on
uk.???.???.

The vast majority of GPS posts on uk.* are recreational, so positioning
this group in the uk.rec hierarchy seems reasonable. The word
"recreational" has however been omitted from the charter, so
Professional and Scientific GPS posts will not be Off Topic.

Various other ng names including satellite-nav have been suggested.
Google groups lists only 40 uk.* threads mentioning satellite-nav in the
past year, which indicates that British English usage is for GPS rather
than satellite-nav. Also not all uses of GPS are navigational, for
geocaching only a position is important.

Various suggestions have been made about the effect uk.rec.gps would
have on the uk.* hierarchy. I will have only one vote in any such
developments, but I would prefer to see uk.rec.gps.garmin etc. but
uk.rec.geocaching should anyone in the future see fit to raise such
RFDs.

There are various alt.* GPS groups with the usual alt.* USA bias and
propagation problems, also sci.geo.satellite-nav for the scientific
community. Also several national gps newsgroups. It is suggested that
a uk newsgroup would be advantageous to discuss uk specific subjects,
such as OS mapping, laws, regulations etc.

The number of newsgroups this RFD should be crossposted to has caused
problems because Control, understandably, objected to 29 group
crossposting and insisted on only 6 newsgroups plus uk.net.news.announce
,uk.net.news.config.

I used google groups to count the number of threads mentioning GPG in
the last year see below. I have chosen the six newsgroups with most
threads mentioning GPS in the last year:
uk.rec.cycling, 88 uk.rec.driving, 67
uk.rec.motorcycles, 117 uk.rec.sailing, 102
uk.rec.walking, 287 uk.telecom.mobile, 66

This means that many uk.* newsgroups which have demonstrated an interest
in GPS will not be officially informed of this RFD. These are:
uk.sci.astronomy, 50 uk.business.agriculture, 23
uk.radio.amateur, 32 uk.railway, 41
uk.rec.audio.car, 16 uk.rec.boats.power, 4
uk.rec.camping, 5 uk.rec.caravanning, 29
uk.rec.cars.4x4, 6 uk.rec.cars.maintenance, 20
uk.rec.cars.misc, 44 uk.rec.cars.modifications, 33
uk.rec.climbing, 6 uk.rec.models.engineering, 2
uk.rec.motorcaravans, 6 uk.rec.running, 18
uk.rec.scuba, 27 uk.rec.waterways, 18
uk.tech.rocketry, 8 uk.transport. 33

Importantly, a response to the previous thread "uk.rec.gps anybody"
asked that one of the uninformed ones uk.tech.rocketry (8 posts) be
informed of the thread.

===================================================================

PROPONENT's Summary of Discussion

The discussion of the two RFDs has been unusually fractious and
factional, even for unnc. There were several groups each opposing all
others, whose positions are summarized below:

That advice given on the proposed u.r.gps may involve danger to some,
but reject the argument that advice given on most newsgroups may involve
danger to some.

That gps is a tool and not a recreation, and the proposed ng in the
uk.rec hierarchy is inappropriate, but reject the argument that a car is
just a tool for getting from A to B.

That "gps" is an abbreviation and as such should not be used in
newsgroup names, as some will not understand it, despite the fact that
the vast majority of existing uk.* posts use "gps".

That the group should be named uk.rec.satellite-nav, which they believe
would be more understandable to a majority of potential subscribers,
despite the fact that the vast majority of existing uk.* posts use
"gps".

That existing: non uk.* gps groups sci.geo.satellite-nav
alt.satellite.gps, alt.satellite.gps.garmin, alt.satellite.gps.magellan,
have sufficient gps discussion for the needs of uk users. Because gps
is by definition global gps discussions should be global. A
specifically UK newsgroup to discuss uk specific subjects such as, use
in the uk, OS mapping, UK laws, UK regulations and other national issues
is inappropriate, despite the about 800 gps threads per year on uk.*.

That existing uk.* groups have sufficient gps discussion, and uk.rec.gps
is not required.

That gps discussion should be in uk.rec.(existing ng).gps, or
uk.(existing ng).gps, etc. but no such RFD has been raised for any of
the about 26 ngs suggested by this group.

That uk.tech.gps should be created, which would require a different RFD
and would create a completely different newsgroup. They are unwilling to
RFD it and prefer to oppose this RFD.

That a choice be given between the various disparate and competing
options, or groups of options.

That anything associated with the proponent should be rejected.

Many people support the creation of uk.rec.gps.

A summary of the rationale is as follows:
"There are two Global Positioning Systems operating at the moment, the
US DoD system and the Russian GLONASS with the EU Galileo planned. There
are also several improvements/extensions to these. Loran and other radio
navigation systems are also used recreationally. Receivers cost as little
as GBP100 and can locate their position within a few meters and calculate:
speed, compass bearing and many other things from position and time.
More expensive versions with maps and car/personal navigation systems are
also on sale.

Discussion of gps is spread at present over more than 26 uk.*
newsgroups in about 800 threads per year. Uk.rec.gps is intended to be
a forum for cross newsgroup expertise on gps matters. It will also be a
place where those who do not wish to be, or are not subscribed to, one
of the other uk.* newsgroups, can discuss gps matters. Also a place
where other gps recreations such as geocaching, geodrawing, and any
other gps recreations which may emerge can be discussed."


The SUMMARY of discussion that appeared in the 2nd RFD under the
heading "RATIONALE: uk.rec.gps, Second RFD" follows. See the Votetaker
Administrative Note.

Discussion of RFD1, and the previous thread showed that there will never
be consensus on combining recreational, professional and technical
posts. See http://tinyurl.com/5swwb for the reason this was included.
Nevertheless reference to professional and technical posts has been
deleted. Others may wish to RFD uk.tech.gps, or uk.sci.gps should
they see fit.

The first RFD only implied that other systems would be On Topic.
Specific reference to the EU Galileo, and the Russian GLONASS systems,
added. Also reference to radio navigation systems added.

Support for this proposed ng from the combined threads stands at 24
persons from across uk.* Most interestingly including 4 who are not
subscribed to the obvious gps using ngs. Others are Motorcaravans 2,
cars (various) 4, waterways 3, sailing 1, walking 5, scuba 2, sci 1,
railways 1, motorcycles 1.

===================================================================

CHANGES from the last RFD

Advertisements of Geocaches rewritten to omit National Grid Reference.
This section now reads:

Advertisements of Geocaches are allowed, the Subject: line should be of
the form "GEOCACHE: gps position, Followed by a short description of
its position etc.

===================================================================

NEWSGROUPS LINE

uk.rec.gps Use of Global Positioning Systems and radio navigation
systems

===================================================================

CHARTER: uk.rec.gps

This newsgroup is for the discussion of all aspects of the UK
recreational use of the US Department of Defense Global Positioning
System, the EU Galileo, the Russian GLONASS systems, and any other
satellite positioning/navigation systems which may be developed. Also
any improvements, or extensions to the above. Also radio navigation
systems. GPS threads also occur on other uk.* newsgroups where they may
be On Topic.

Advertising

Advertising is forbidden, with these exceptions:

Suppliers of goods and services relevant to GPS in the UK may post an
invitation to visit their web site or request details. It should be of
four lines or fewer and not posted more than once every 3 months. The
subject line should begin "ADVERT: ", except for vacancy adverts, when
it should begin " JOB.

Advertisements of Geocaches are allowed, the Subject: line should be of
the form "GEOCACHE: gps position, Followed by a short description of
its position etc.

Binaries & Formatting

Encoded binaries (e.g. pictures, compressed files, etc.) are forbidden.
Such material belongs on a web or FTP site to which a pointer may be
posted. Cryptographic signatures (e.g. PGP) may be used where
authentication is important and should be as short as possible.

Posts must be readable as plain text. HTML, RTF and similarly formatted
messages are prohibited. To see how to make some common
newsreaders comply with this, read
<http://www.usenet.org.uk/ukpost.html>.

Warning. Anyone posting contrary to this charter may be reported to
their "postmaster" and/or Service Provider.

END CHARTER

===================================================================

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Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.gps?

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TROUBLESHOOTING

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You have to admit it's got potential, though.

Each specialised interest group can secrete objects relevant to their
interest.

e.g.

alt.engr.explosives could hide bombs that would be detonated by the careless
newbie GPS owners.

alt.hobbies.serial-murder could hide body parts - with perhaps an annual
event (similar to our own EOSM - only an End of Summer Murder) where all the
body parts of a murder victim have to be retrieved.

 

And they'd dug up the road I had intended to use.

And it was dark.

I was using a polar coordinate system.

The evening was worth it.

 

| FIRST CALL FOR VOTES (OF 2)
|
| Create unmoderated newsgroup uk.rec.gps

This CFV has failed to reach some newsservers notably news.ntlworld.com
probably as a result of crossposting limits

You may send an empty email to
in order to receive the complete CFV along with a ballot form.

SOD of the CFV is quoted belowROPONENT's Summary of Discussion

The discussion of the two RFDs has been unusually fractious and
factional, even for unnc. There were several groups each opposing all
others, whose positions are summarized below:

That advice given on the proposed u.r.gps may involve danger to some,
but reject the argument that advice given on most newsgroups may involve
danger to some.

That gps is a tool and not a recreation, and the proposed ng in the
uk.rec hierarchy is inappropriate, but reject the argument that a car is
just a tool for getting from A to B.

That "gps" is an abbreviation and as such should not be used in
newsgroup names, as some will not understand it, despite the fact that
the vast majority of existing uk.* posts use "gps".

That the group should be named uk.rec.satellite-nav, which they believe
would be more understandable to a majority of potential subscribers,
despite the fact that the vast majority of existing uk.* posts use
"gps".

That existing: non uk.* gps groups sci.geo.satellite-nav
alt.satellite.gps, alt.satellite.gps.garmin, alt.satellite.gps.magellan,
have sufficient gps discussion for the needs of uk users. Because gps
is by definition global gps discussions should be global. A
specifically UK newsgroup to discuss uk specific subjects such as, use
in the uk, OS mapping, UK laws, UK regulations and other national issues
is inappropriate, despite the about 800 gps threads per year on uk.*.

That existing uk.* groups have sufficient gps discussion, and uk.rec.gps
is not required.

That gps discussion should be in uk.rec.(existing ng).gps, or
uk.(existing ng).gps, etc. but no such RFD has been raised for any of
the about 26 ngs suggested by this group.

That uk.tech.gps should be created, which would require a different RFD
and would create a completely different newsgroup. They are unwilling to
RFD it and prefer to oppose this RFD.

That a choice be given between the various disparate and competing
options, or groups of options.

That anything associated with the proponent should be rejected.

Many people support the creation of uk.rec.gps.
<<<

 

Get lost fullstop.

Why is it all the freaks volunteer for this stuff?


--


Cheerio,











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'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.217% richest people in the world.
There are 5,986,950,449 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 13,049,551
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you.
2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond.
3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself.
4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining
they're having no effect.
5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know
how to avoid them.
6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping
manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored.
7) Eat vast quantities of pies.
8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades.
9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while
secretly reading it.
10) Pretend you're a hard bastard when in fact you're
as bent as a roundabout.
11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet
12) Die of old age
13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you
will have a penis the girls can see.

 

abuse report sent to

The real
Steve Terry

 

Keep it up troll and I'll shit on your head and dig your mums bones
up for my stew.

abuse report sent to

The real
Steve Terry


--


Cheerio,











SUPPORT ISRAEL

Myths & Facts Online
A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict
By Mitchell G. Bard


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+------------------------+
| NO PLONKING ZONE |
+------------------------+
| | |
| | | |
..| |.. .| |..
...\| |/.... \| |/..











**********************************************




'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.217% richest people in the world.
There are 5,986,950,449 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 13,049,551
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you.
2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond.
3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself.
4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining
they're having no effect.
5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know
how to avoid them.
6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping
manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored.
7) Eat vast quantities of pies.
8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades.
9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while
secretly reading it.
10) Pretend you're a hard bastard when in fact you're
as bent as a roundabout.
11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet
12) Die of old age
13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you
will have a penis the girls can see.

 

I would appreciate the groups regulars to send an abuse report to
and a counter malicious abuse
report to

It would sound better coming from others

Thanks
Steve Terry

 

I'll give you a quid if you can find ten people who give the
slightest toss.

 

I would appreciate the groups regulars to send an abuse report about
this prick to and a counter malicious abuse
report to

It would sound better coming from others

Thanks
Steve Terry


PS: If you could also vote for me in the next elections that would be
fucking ripper.


--


Cheerio,











SUPPORT ISRAEL

Myths & Facts Online
A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict
By Mitchell G. Bard


http://tinyurl.com/ysepr




+------------------------+
| NO PLONKING ZONE |
+------------------------+
| | |
| | | |
..| |.. .| |..
...\| |/.... \| |/..











**********************************************




'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.217% richest people in the world.
There are 5,986,950,449 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 13,049,551
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you.
2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond.
3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself.
4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining
they're having no effect.
5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know
how to avoid them.
6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping
manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored.
7) Eat vast quantities of pies.
8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades.
9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while
secretly reading it.
10) Pretend you're a hard bastard when in fact you're
as bent as a roundabout.
11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet
12) Die of old age
13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you
will have a penis the girls can see.

 

I'll give him ten quid if he can find one.

(Offer does not include the net nannies sock puppets)


--


Cheerio,











SUPPORT ISRAEL

Myths & Facts Online
A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict
By Mitchell G. Bard


http://tinyurl.com/ysepr




+------------------------+
| NO PLONKING ZONE |
+------------------------+
| | |
| | | |
..| |.. .| |..
...\| |/.... \| |/..











**********************************************




'You can't win 'em all.'
Lord Haw Haw.

Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities
Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities
I am in the top 0.217% richest people in the world.
There are 5,986,950,449 people poorer than me

If you're really interested I am the 13,049,551
richest person in the world.

And I'm keeping the bloody lot.

So sue me.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Newsgroup ettiquette

1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you.
2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond.
3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself.
4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining
they're having no effect.
5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know
how to avoid them.
6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping
manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored.
7) Eat vast quantities of pies.
8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades.
9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while
secretly reading it.
10) Pretend you're a hard bastard when in fact you're
as bent as a roundabout.
11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet
12) Die of old age
13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you
will have a penis the girls can see.

 

Oh FFS!

Why do some people make such a drama out of things?

This has now been the subject of two large and several small
threads on uk.netnews.config.

In summary:
- A bloke called Dave Fawthrop thought it would be a good idea
to create a group called uk.rec.gps.
- Some other people agreed.
- Some other people disagreed.
- These who disagreed went to great extremes of slagging-off
Dave Fawthrop and some of the people who agreed.
- It's now being put to a vote.

If you want the group created vote for it. If you don't, don't
vote for it. It's that simple. There's nothing to have a
flamewar about.

--
<8P Wizard
Suzuki GS550 "I like that. Nicely shite" - TOG
Golf GTi 16v
ANORAK#17b BOMB#19 BOTAFOT#138 BREast#5 COFF#24
COSOC#8 DFV#11 STG#1
Remove location from email address to reply

 

**** off you netkkkoping wankstain.



--

Phil Kyle abUsenet Arty Choke
\/////////////////////////////\
http://philkyle2003.greatnow.com/
\/////////////////////////////\

 

LMAO!!!!!!

--

Phil Kyle abUsenet Arty Choke
\/////////////////////////////\
http://philkyle2003.greatnow.com/
\/////////////////////////////\

 

Pay up then.

Fine, in that case you definately owe him a tenner.

--

 

Please do explain where the netkoping is, in complaining about identity theft?
I don't take to putting in abuse complaints lightly

Steve Terry

 

Sure had us fooled ninny.

 

Are you his gran?

 

I said netkkkoping, never mentioned netkoping.


--

Phil Kyle abUsenet Arty Choke
\/////////////////////////////\
http://philkyle2003.greatnow.com/
\/////////////////////////////\