Anyone know anything about European Law? I got this from FEMA, when I questioned the legality of the 106BHP limit. ---- Concerning the 100bhp limit in france, bikes sold in that country, as anywhere else in the EU, are regulated by the legislation on European Type approval. At present, there is no proposal related to a speed or power limitation for motorcycles. Such proposal (the 100bhp limit) was -as you know- on the European agenda about 10 years ago, but FEMA stopped it by showing that it was not useful in terms of road safety, reffering to a research undertaken by a Dutch research institute (TNO). The question of the French situation of limiting the power to 100bhp reduces the choice for French riders and could be considered as a limitation to the principle of free circulation of goods within the EU. In some instances, it could also be a limitation to the free circulation of persons, in particular in the case of a European citizen transferring his/her residence in France and wishing to register a bike that was first registered in another EU country. It is possible for any citizen to submit an appeal to the European Commission in order to get a reply, in light of the treaties and directives ---- So then, if I did buy a bike in the UK and bring it over to France, what are my chances of fighting the above and winning? How could I do this? I need to get in touch with the FFMC (French MAG - Fédération Française des Motards en Colère [1][2]) and check this out. [1] I just love that name... [2] Yes, I am a member.
In uk.rec.motorcycles, Cab belched forth and ejected the following: Why fight it? It sounds clear to me; the 100bhp limit have never been introduced. That's one way of putting it ;-)
My take on it has always been that there's no EU-wide power limit, but individual states can set any limit they want - EU directives etc tend to set the upper limit, so if the EU limit was 106bhp and the UK decided 120bhp was OK, then the UK would be in trouble. Setting a national limit lower than any EU limit, or setting a limit when the EU has not said whether there should be one either way would not, AFAICT be contravening EU rules as they don't say member states *can't* set power limits.... But also, AFAICT that only applies to bikes sold in France I'd be interested to see how a case went with regard to an EU-homologated UK-spec bike being re-registered in France without power capping. Dave
I never thought of that. Presumably the equivalent of an MSVA test in France includes a dyno test., but then if the bike already has a Certificate of Conformity it wouldn't need a test and would be OK as long as it showed power within the limit. Mad old git that I am I did it the other way round so power was the least of my problems. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Moto Guzzi Mille GT/Squire RS3 Gilera Nordwest | | Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
There is no EU set limit, as the proposal was thrown out years ago. Well, I've thought that one of three things could apply: 1. Freedom of choice 2. Illegal imposition of 106BHP rule (not sure if this is true) 3. Free movement of goods (as shown in my OP) You couldn't. You'd need to get it restricted and prove it was restricted before getting the "certificate des mines" and then being able to register it.
Time is the thing I don't have too much off. This is a problem. Money? Well, maybe I can get assistance from other interested parties, if I can drum up enough support.
I'm not sure it'd be dyno'ed or not, but some form of proof would be required. The model being sold in the country also helps, as it's a nightmare for grey imports that aren't sold in France. Heh, quite.
Then waging war against the EU is not for you.[/QUOTE] Heh, I know. I'm trying to assess my options atm.
Errrr. Not sure about that. Not done it, but when I paid French duty on the gixxer I got all sorts of paperwork and was given to believe that I just had to present it to some office in Mulhouse to register it. Same with the cars. My belief was simply that all the models were standard, so there would be no questions asked, no need for any other certification. Certainly this is how it worked importing vehicles into Suisse, although I accept that it's _possible_ that froggy beaurocracy may be even worse than Swiss. SWK may be along shortly... -- _______ ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` `
What makes you think this is the case? I recall when dog was trying to import one of their bikes he had all sorts of problems and had to get aforementioned certificate sorted, but that was for a grey import. Any model that's also sold in France shouldn't need any additional paperwork. AFAIAA. -- _______ ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` `
The word could have been "has" in place of "have" In proper France isn't a proper country? Don't let the frogs know that. -- Beav VN 750 Zed 1000 OMF# 19
*I_KNOW*. There is no EU limit, therefore there is no ruling from the EU, therefore it is perfectly possible that separate member states of the EU can set their own limits without being in contravention of any EU limits which may (but do not) exist. That was the point I was making.... That they'd only be in contravention of the (non-existent) EU 'limit' if any particular country chose a 'limit' over it. If there was a 'limit' then by definition it'd be a 'limit', so member states could easily say their limit was lower and not contravene it. Dave
*ding* That's the one. He had to jump through hoops to get the paperwork (presumably this 'certificate des mines' referred to). Took weeks, as I recall. It's the frog aversion to sports bikes, I think. They'd argue (in fact, someone on here tried just that recently on a thread x-posted to frm) that trailies and their ilk are much more suited to twisty alpine roads. I beg to differ, of course -- _______ ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` `
There seems to be no shortage of them round 'our way' - but then it's not exactly alpine. Serious enduro country (Gilles Lalay Classique territory) so lots of bona fide off-road stuff, but also groups of sports bikes blatting up to the big lake and back on a Sunday. We are near a junction where they turn off to the right as a hairpin bend. Just like a reverse Ramsey hairpin. Sounds almost like 'Pahnd Island' sometimes. -- +-----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster Moto Guzzi Mille GT/Squire RS3 Gilera Nordwest | | Gilera GFR Moto Morini 2C/375 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
From my post to frm: --- l'article R321-5 précise: " Le ministre chargé des transports fixe par arrêté les dispositions nécessaires à la vérification de la puissance et de la vitesse maximale des motocyclettes, des tricycles et quadricycles à moteur et des cyclomoteurs. " ---
In uk.rec.motorcycles, Beav belched forth and ejected the following: Thank you, it was. I *have* cleaned out my blimmin' keyboard now. It was dropping "d"s like a bastard until then, too.
Yeah, and? It doesn't say anything about importing from other countries. -- _______ ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` `
It doesn't say anything about importing from other countries. Without this context, it simply says they have the authority to test maximum speeds and power outputs. I'd guess that it's much more concerned with mopeds, 125s and 33kw limitations than full power stuff. -- _______ ..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom) \`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 `\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10 `\|/` `
